20 November 2007 Dearborn County Commissioner Meeting Notes
Present: Hughes, Chairman, Fox, and Thompson.
Also present: Pickens, Auditor, Messmore, Administrator, and Ewbank, Attorney
As always a uniformed police officer was present.
Sheriff Lusby asked the commissioners to accept all three bids for food services. Approved.
Kuebel Road concerns regarding Mr. White’s property – Ewbank notified the commissioners that after 20 years of public use- a road is considered publicly owned. They will pass the info on to Listerman in Highway after he returns from vacation.
Arnie McGill’s statement was sent to Pickens to be viewed as a claim for services where he represented the county in a summary judgment. Ewbank noted the fees were fair and reasonable for the time spent on the case.
Lifetime Resources were approved with Hughes appointed to sign off for an owner occupied rehab program and Community Development Block Grant. They are applying for a $300,000 grant and will use $32,000 left from a previous grant for matching funds. No county funds are being used.
MASTER PLAN MAP AMENDMENT
Mark McCormack – presented the amendment to the Land Use Element of the Master Plan. McCormack took nearly an hour to present the background, explain the enabling laws that cover it, and showed the map. He also showed the text changes that occurred as a result of this process. He explained that by law this plan is to be reviewed at least every 5 years and that they intend to update it sooner with census data in a couple of years. The master plan was initiated in 2003 AND PASSED IN 2005. The Land Use Map was initiated in late 2005 and is here tonight for consideration.
Three PC members were present: Mike Hall, Chairman, Dennis Kraus, Jr., County Surveyor, and Ralph Thompson, Commissioner. Commissioners asked several questions during this time to clarify their understanding.
PUBLIC:
John Rahe- Aurora and Chairman of the County Redevelopment Commission- Noted there were several maps and that Map C was the preferred one for business and job creation. He said the process did not give enough consideration to job creation and reasonable economic development. There are over 500 kids who graduate from high school in the county each year. We need to provide work for them and NOT send them to other counties to work. Alternative C does a better job of providing employment here. He noted that taxes went up 50% this year and that commercial uses would help control those increases. It is irresponsible to not do this for economic development.
Jim West ( Chairman of DCEDI) Advisory Board Master Plan and Mike Rozow (Chamber of Commerce) Advisory Board Master Plan - spoke representing their constituent members. West claimed 45 companies funding his group and Rozow claimed 450 companies and individuals as members. [NOTE: There are some individuals in both of these organizations who do NOT support the comments that were spoken on their behalf.]
West read the same letter he had presented to the Plan Commission in October (see those notes on this blog for complete transcript) He said that neither A or AA give the right type of environment for economic development in Dearborn County. We want and need economic development. There are many geophysical issues, which hamper this- in slopes, soil, and limited highway infrastructure. I-74 and US 50 are the two main transportation corridors.
He said 80% of companies want to be within 3 miles of an interstate. He cited the companies that were attracted to Boone County when he was working for them (Fidelity, Citi Bank, Toyota) all asked to look at their land use plan. This plan won’t help sell the county. We talked to property owners along I-74 and we have a collection of owners who want to sell. We have also tried to document why some companies rejected us and got one company to go on record.
West went on to talk about no growth agricultural interests and referred to them as having emotional responses and caring only about their own selfish needs. He also thought they were hiding behind Agricultural industry. He said his words were ignored- and that he has 35 years experience in this. Alternative C comes closest to their needs and it is closer to the 2005 map. (He’s referring to the 2005 draft map that was part of FOCUS group consolidations and not a map that was approved or discussed by the advisory board as a whole) He said they wanted to come forth with something positive and they want a strategic economic development plan to be done. They had a meeting today with eth Chamber and Purdue on how to do this. [NOTE: West has had almost 3 years to get his plan together- what exactly has he been doing trying to attract business without a plan? What kind of business runs that way?]
Fox- said- if you went to the Plan Commission, you’d find that some people would sell their land only for the right thing. We have casinos coming across the river- it will take our safety net away. We haven’t done our part here- people are afraid of what you’ll put here. Employment parks are not the same as INDUSTRY. They targeted A to be on the safe side- they don’t trust you. We have not done a good job of showing that we are not going to harm them. [NOTE: Fox seems to get this part.]
Rozow- We’re willing to work to build that trust- whatever it take to engage the people. [NOTE: But now it’s harder- you can’t be underhanded and then expect people to trust you- it takes a while to build trust in any circumstance- longer if you’ve shown yourself to be untrustworthy in the past. This is not going to be an easy task.]
Sandy Whitehead- Jackson Township -Rick- you are right. I know I saw West and a realtor at my parent’s (Stengers) house asking if they wanted to sell. THEN the Vieste phase 1 project came out.
If you ignore this plan- everyone worked so hard on it- it would be like a slap in the face. She pulled up the map showing the changes in land use acreages in the maps- we are residents of the county- the plan affects us. You will note that I-74 corridor is NOT ignored. The TIF in St. Leon and TIF in W. Harrison shows here as commercial. This is a living document- revisited every couple of years. Change it then- it is not going to prohibit industry and commercial- your infrastructure will limit it. Build from where it exists outward.
Chet Wolgamot- US 49- Manchester Township- Advisory Board Master Plan- commended Mark McCormack and his staff for leading and guiding the process. Given the polarization, I’m not sure if we reached a consensus or an armistice. Someone once said that if both parties feel shortchanged, then it’s a fair deal.
We need growth and we need jobs- the types of businesses that Fox mentioned. Fox is also correct saying we can’t take for granted that we’ll get what we want to come in. West said property owners are willing to sell and this map will prevent that. This map is nothing but a vision. 1% of the county was interested enough to speak to this. If no one has a better alternative- we should do this. If these gentlemen showed up with a Fidelity, I have a feeling it would all fall into place. I recommend we adopt this plan.
Nicole Daily- Manchester – Urban Planner with Bayer Becker Engineering- Advisory Board Master Plan - This plan doesn’t guide road growth, orange color only lists existing high density residential, and we need more- it will save Ag. Taxes went up. She said R shows a 7 % increase (11.6%-18.2% of the county) and Industry 1% (going from .5-1.6%.) [NOTE: This isn’t rate of increase- she’s talking about percentage of total acreage.]
Thompson- what do you consider balance?
Nicole Daily- I’m not sure- I can’t give you a percentage- it would depend on what kind of business you brought in.
Rozow- Don’t know either- we need a study.
Chris Mueller- Lawrenceburg Township- Advisory Board Master Plan- said I attended every meeting of the two failed master plans and am on the advisory board of this plan, giving me a unique historical perspective. I discussed two major issues with the map- high-density sub’ns, which will be covered more appropriately in ordinance changes and the NW Quad. I concurred with Fox on the lack of trust the people have particularly considering what many see as underhanded tactics during the Vieste project.
I explained why the maps only showed current high density residential- because the zone ordinance has to create that district in order to create more of it.
I stressed that we considered FACTS and DATA about what is existing and patterns of development. I spoke about the plan staff giving us the information we requested and we used it to determine if we were allowing enough. We looked at the rates of development and at the amount of acreage currently rezoned and platted but unbuilt and we have 10 years of building at 300 permits a year even if we use large 1-acre lots. Then add to that the amount of acreage increased in this map. Even using 1-acre lots and liberal estimates of one house per acre- you have about 25- 30 years of residential covered.
Commercial and industrial have some other considerations. I passed out fiscal impact paper to Commissioners as it relates to INDIANA. I related those common sense ideas to the county and noted that we CANNOT make everything pay for itself. There are people who cannot afford high end homes and do have kids. And we want those people to be here too. We do not want a homogenous county. So the most IMPORTANT thing we can do to offset this is to PACE the development so that we can absorb the costs realistically. (Pace and place was one of our tenets for the master plan)
Fox- asked if this map would affect people getting zone changes and I answered yes- in that it is one of the 5 criteria for a zone change in state law. Fox then concluded that it would affect a person’s ability to sell their land.
Chris Mueller said- not really- they can sell- it just might not be for development at that time.
Fox didn’t like that idea- - You mean I can’t sell it and get development price- I might have to wait 10 years?
Chris Mueller answered- it is like stock- you buy low and sell high. If you want the highest price you have to wait sometimes.
Dennis Kraus Jr. came to the podium at that time and explained to Commissioners how the Plan Commission handles those requests. [NOTE: The bottom line is IC says that the PC and Commissioners must pay reasonable regard to the master plan in granting zone change. This map will be part of that master plan.]
Chris Mueller- Have to consider county wishes from community to community. A plan is FOR PEOPLE. There are people in this county who live in subdivisions, others like denser living near towns, others like rural spaces. We must remember that ownership of the land trumps desires of those who want to change it. Over 500 people sent letters and they expressed desire to stay rural in the area DCEDI wants to have. I can’t in good conscience ignore their wishes. Property rights means that they have the right NOT to sell also. Forcing economic development there- ignores one or more of the legs of sustainable development.
For a plan to be sustainable it has to balance three areas- social, environmental, economic. Leaving any aspect out- or unbalanced -and the community will not be sustainable.
The advisory board was overloaded per capita with economic pressure - yet the majority vote was still Map A . I personally don’t like to draw lines on other people’s properties on maps. This map is NOT perfect in every way. But it’s a start- and we need to move on. I asked that they approve this map amendment to the master plan.
Jeff Stenger- Surveyor- Jackson Township- former PC Chairman and served on other Master Plan committees- recommended that they adhere to what the PC sent as a starting point. There are some inadequacies. Improvements can be made. This is as close to consensus as we’ve ever gotten in 9 years! A lot of our existing infrastructure is inadequate- we need to know where the lines need increased capacity in sewers for example or water. DCEDI and the Chamber need to help get this. No matter what- when a plan comes in- it can be shot down- it all depends on how educated your PC board is. [NOTE: This is critical- we currently have two experienced members not returning (Cheek from Council and Feiss- citizen appointee) and one experienced member up for reappointment. If commissioners choose to just ignore those capabilities in their choices in January- they will do 4 years of harm to the county progress.]
Ronald Fischer- US Bank and DCEDI member- noted there was a lot of good discussion. Said Fox is right- this should be a guide- the people who use this will be professional staff and outside developers. This map shoots us out of the saddle- outside companies will see us as not wanting development.
Thompson- What would you see?
Ronald Fischer- Map C- we missed the Honda suppliers and the boat is going away too. Open up the WHOLE I-74 CORRIDOR!
[NOTE: The boat is going away? Did we not just see a huge expansion with a barge bringing parts down the river? If you open the whole corridor- how does that help you consolidate infrastructure- how does that point anyone to the best spot? How does that prevent scattered costly development?]
Mark Hall- New Alsace- Advisory Board Member- I served on the board for all 3 plans. Not too many things are guaranteed in stone- but I’ll guarantee I’ll be living here long after West has moved on to his next job. We’ve talked about dollars and cents and not the quality of life. Most people don’t think about the value of their property. People in rural areas want to pass their property on to their families. Some of us feel about our land the way we feel about family. My kids are 4th generation on our farms. Hall took exception to West’s comments about being selfish- if West is right- then the only way I can participate in Northern Dearborn County is to sell my land and move elsewhere.
We have too much growth- we have to pay more taxes for schools- this could drive people off their land.
Hughes- we need to make development more accountable.
Mark Hall- This plan should reflect what the people who LIVE here want also. Help them to do that. Less development means less taxes too.
Laverne Kolb- Miller Township- Farm Bureau - Advisory Board Member- all this talk about taxes- where were these people today when we were up at the statehouse discussing that? We need to restructure tax laws.
I don’t always agree with Mark Hall- and he knows that- but I do agree with him when he said Mr. West highly insulted us. We are not greedy and selfish- we just raised our kids on our farm. She spoke of her kids being harassed at the end of their street by developers telling them they had to sell their property. She said- “I don’t got to sell- I just got to pay my taxes and die! “
I agree with Fox- we have a right to keep our land and do with it as we want.
Helen Kremer- Advisory Board Member- Logan Township- All advisory board members with many different interests came up with these maps. We stand by the process- it is important. Map A is the closest to the citizen’s wishes at this time. She asked that they honor that and approve it.
Sandy Whitehead- I have a question. There are exit ramps in St, Leon and W Harrison. There is land for sale there and in the TIF’s there also. So why isn’t this economic development coming there? If not there- why would you add the NW Quad?
Ronald Fischer- Because it adds more opportunity. Some people in the TIF might not want to sell. [NOTE: Hey- I have an idea- why not just color the whole map RED. Is that enough opportunity?]
Cliff Eibeck- Why put TIFs where people don’t want to sell? I don’t think there was land marked in Greensburg, I think Honda came in and said- I want this piece of ground.
Chet Wolgamot- When we rezone we try not to hurt adjoining landowners. Is our property tax formula part of the problem? Is it possible that when Fidelity or whoever buys land it drives up the tax value of the farm?
Cary Pickens- Ag use is taxed at a flat rate- however it could affect the rate of the house and the land it’s on.
Public hearing closed:
Mark McCormack- You have to consider the community’s desires also. We cannot design our plan around a tax plan. I may be wrong- but I don’t think there was a 4000-acre site on a master plan for the Honda plant to look at. Let’s move this forward- the staff and board will remain engaged- we don’t sit still – we’re a dynamic staff- this will be a living document.
Thompson- Spoke about the two groups labeled the Developers and the “Do Nothings” or whatever they are called. Did some math calculations and showed them we have almost 50 years of R land in this map and 15 years of Commercial/Industrial – not county the mixed use areas.
McCormack- Also want the commissioners to note that these small lines and circles on this map aren’t small. The St. Leon area is 1200 acres- or 2 square miles. And there are 200 plus acres around Lawrenceville.
Thompson noted that 10/1 ratio on R to Industry may work out. The survey being 1% of the population is accurate but he countered that we should remove the kids from that number perhaps. He noted that municipalities and all their businesses were NOT in this map. This means there are many businesses in the county that aren’t on this map. He also said Mayor Cunningham said that DCEDI has produced nothing for Lawrenceburg. (Lawrenceburg pays the lion’s share of the public moneys for DCEDI.)
Hughes-Complimented the people who worked on this for 9 years. Since it’s been that long- it would be premature to vote on it tonight.
Fox- wanted to be sure we understood it before we vote. Made the motion to table it.
Hughes said he did a survey himself this weekend- contacting the owners of over 7,000 acres and none of them were notified about the land use map. He wanted to be sure everyone in the county was notified and understood this map.
Hughes 2nd Fox motion . All three voted aye to table.
[NOTE: Hughes spent the weekend contacting people and supposedly they didn’t know about this map. I personally know of one his wife contacted on his behalf who DID know. So is Mr. Hughes being entirely truthful? Every county address on record was sent a postcard notifying them personally of the master plan public meetings on these maps. The newspaper and radio also announced and wrote articles of the plan. The newspaper PUBLISHED the maps on a full page! I do not know who Hughes picked to call- but they either aren’t interested in the county, or he’s mistaken, or he asked the question in a confusing manner. People who vote get a say in their government. People who read the paper or listen to the news should also. It’s almost funny- in a sick sort of way- that Hughes hates any public input at his commissioner meetings- and now wants the plan commission to go door-to-door or something similar teaching everyone individually about the maps. The master plan process is the most open process in the county. The advisory meetings are open to the public to view and leave written comments. The open houses allowed numerous methods of responses. The outreach via media and mail was costly and time consuming. This is criticized by a commissioner who took about 10 minutes to vote on mega buck plan for the county from Vieste, without even vetting the company’s credentials. The hypocrisy is laughable.
If commissioners need time to think- that’s perfectly understandable. But don’t blame it on something else. Just ask for the time to think. That I can respect. Maybe Hughes should have done more thinking and less calling around with handpicked citizens to try to discredit an open process.]
TEN MINUTE RECESS
Listerman- on vacation- no highway report.
Pickens had no minutes- phones ringing off the hook from tax bills. Claims were approved.
Messmore will have a letter sent to Mr. White on Kuebel Road and Ewbank will get the wording on the 20-year public use law.
Ewbank said Anchor Glass settlement is done and check is going to Treasurers Office.
Thompson presented the Artemis , OKI, INDOT proposal to use CMAQ money to complete the lighted sign loop on 275 in Listerman’s absence.. They need INDOT to do a significant part of the 2-% match for feds and a letter from commissioners will be going to request that.
Fox- wants to meet with Mark McCormack on some fiscal analysis.
Hughes got the commissioners to approve the committee to look into the employee advance payroll issue in order to become compliant. Committee will be Messmore, Lusby, Blankenship, Ewbank, ad Hughes.
Meeting adjourned at 10:05 PM
Christine Brauer Mueller
Lawrenceburg Township
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180 comments:
Mr. West talked about how the people "caring about their own selfish needs and hiding behind the agricultural industry". With that kind of attitude and disrespect for the people who own the land and farm, I don't think he is ever going to gain any trust from the people in the northwest quadrant. That is an insult to all who own the land and to all the farmers. Don't he realize the agricultural industry is someone's job and the way they make a living--and also a means to feed others.
Fox and Hughs are illiterate on the maps. They need to get informed instead of passing the buck by stating the people need to be informed. The people made and ok'ed the maps now Fox and Hughs need to read it before holding commissioners meeting on the subject.
I noticed that now that there is just one Commissioner not willing to drink up all Development Interests are willing to pour, Jim West has not come before the Commissioners asking for more money!
I guess he longs for the good old days when all the plans were made before the Commissioners' meetings only to be rubber-stamped by their flunkies at the meetings!
Sandy Whitehead- Jackson Township -Rick- you are right. I know I saw West and a realtor at my parent’s (Stengers) house asking if they wanted to sell. THEN the Vieste phase 1 project came out.
Jim West, the self-defined public servant, doing his "best" to get the "best" deal for his developer "clients!"
Every dollar saved by offering to buy land from "purposely" uninformed sellers would go into a politically connected realtor or developer or banker or lawyer's bottomless pockets!
Not one more "public" dollar should flow to the DCEDI!
Hughes- we need to make development more accountable.
A good start would be to fire Bob Ewbank.
It is no secret that he is the number one enabler of Development Interests who want all their plans and deals done, outside the purview of the public, only to have them ratified in public meetings as quickly and with as little public input as possible.
The Commissioners need an attorney that works for them, not the other way around!
Hell, Bob sees no problem with the conflicting interests and appearance of impropriety of having his law partner as the DCRSD's attorney!
The arrogance and hubris is absolutely mind-boggling!
Some insist on treating this County like some backwater burg, where the "powerful" can do as they please!
Old school Dennerline could be the poster child backwater politics!
[NOTE: Hughes spent the weekend contacting people and supposedly they didn’t know about this map. I personally know of one his wife contacted on his behalf who DID know. So is Mr. Hughes being entirely truthful? Every county address on record was sent a postcard notifying them personally of the master plan public meetings on these maps. The newspaper and radio also announced and wrote articles of the plan. The newspaper PUBLISHED the maps on a full page! I do not know who Hughes picked to call- but they either aren’t interested in the county, or he’s mistaken, or he asked the question in a confusing manner. People who vote get a say in their government. People who read the paper or listen to the news should also. It’s almost funny- in a sick sort of way- that Hughes hates any public input at his commissioner meetings- and now wants the plan commission to go door-to-door or something similar teaching everyone individually about the maps. The master plan process is the most open process in the county. The advisory meetings are open to the public to view and leave written comments. The open houses allowed numerous methods of responses. The outreach via media and mail was costly and time consuming. This is criticized by a commissioner who took about 10 minutes to vote on mega buck plan for the county from Vieste, without even vetting the company’s credentials. The hypocrisy is laughable.
If commissioners need time to think- that’s perfectly understandable. But don’t blame it on something else. Just ask for the time to think. That I can respect. Maybe Hughes should have done more thinking and less calling around with handpicked citizens to try to discredit an open process.]
Chris,
I know you put a lot of time and effort into this work. Your are to be commended for your dedication. However, the tone of your editorial comment is quite testy and even a wee bit bitchy. The map will be approved eventually. Patience!
I own a farm. I love my land like a family member. I'm not selfish Mr. West. I just put my love for my family and farm over your short term profit needs!
The interest shown in my land has nothing to do with its intrinsic value.
I has everything to do with someone trying to buy my land at "rural" prices only to have their cronies in government rezone it to commercial use, making someone, other than MY family, rich!
It is not my place to offer you up prime land, at agriculture prices, for you get your bonuses and letters of recommedations for your next job!
The map will be approved eventually. Patience!
And the check is in the mail, you will love us all forever and you won't..........
Patience?
Until the next election where development interests will try to rig another election with another "Linkmeyer" shuffle?
If I was Chris, after all the time she has spent with the notable doofusses in county government, elected or hired and their developer manipulators, I would be blogging in a most sarcastic way!
Now tell us how you feel about Jim West's "stinging" tone as to those of us he refers to as selfish?
Further, tell us all how our republican leadership can ever support Fox and Hughes in a republican primary after they spat in the face of the rank and file republican voter and through their support to yet another development DEMOCRAT stooge?
"Further, tell us all how our republican leadership can ever support Fox and Hughes..."
Oh please!
Our Republican Party Leadership have become the overly made-up, chubby and drunken dates of our local Development Frat Boys, goofing with their pitiful dates as they use their access to pick the rank and files' pockets!
Regarding Fox's comment about selling land and getting developmnet prices. When was the county made responsible for making certain peoples land "worth more" by putting roads, utilities, etc near that land to benefit a few. If that is their goal, maybe they can zone the whole county commericail/industrial and then the value of everyone's land will go up. That way anyone can do anything they want with their land. Wouldn't Dearborn County be a great place to live then!!!!!
"When was the county made responsible for making certain peoples land "worth more" by putting roads, utilities, etc near that land to benefit a few."
How much do you wanna bet, that those, at the top of the list to get roads, utilities, etc to their property will not be non-DCEDI members...
...unless and until and after...
...us non-DCEDI types sell our land to a DCEDI member!!!!!!!!!
Maybe I'm mistaken, but when Jim West was up in the NW Quadrant, soliciting landowners willing to sell their land, did he make it "enthusiastically" clear to these landowners that they were sitting on a "virtual" gold mine!
Did he?
did he make it "enthusiastically" clear to these landowners that they were sitting on a "virtual" gold mine!
Well, I'm sure Jim West did not inform those living around such land that they were "sitting on a virtual "LAND MINE," because they would soon get letters in the mail that they would soon be "forced" to deplete their savings or get loans to help to subsidize and make this land even more profitable, due to their close proximity to such land and their lack of political connections!
It would be "selfish" to expect any less from such neigbors!
Ah!
Gone are days when the "Ruling Class" could condescend down to the "Ruled Class" and spout lies about expanding and broadening the "Ruled Class'" tax base, while, in truth, the "Ruling Class" would give away the tax base through tax abatements to all the FOTRCs(Friends Of The Ruling Class)!
Or that "growth" means OUR land would be worth more, while in truth, OUR land would be worth more after THEY(The Ruling Class) paid us a mere fraction of the profits gained by the "Ruling Class after they sell the land bought for the "Ruled Class!"
Ah!...once again...for effect!!!!!!!
Our Republican Party Leadership have become the overly made-up, chubby and drunken dates of our local Development Frat Boys
I can just see Pickens, last commissioners' race, with bleach blond, high riding bouffant hair, gushing over all the attention shown him by the local frat boys!
And Charile "The Tax Dollar Fairy" trolling for other, like minded" Fairies!!!"
Mr. West talked about how the people "caring about their own selfish needs and hiding behind the agricultural industry".
And the Realtor/Developers pushing for more, County backed and subsidized development, are selflessly focusing all their efforts on such projects for the "good" of the County and its residents as a whole and not to better their profits, individually!
Hire a "JIM WEST," like our local Development Complex did, and you get the entire period of fantasy filled fun paid for, up front, in the sordid transaction!
A "JIM WEST" gives as much as he is paid to give!
A "JIM WEST" takes as much from those who are not paying his "No Tell, Motel Rates" as he is paid to by his "hourly" realtor/developer/banker/lawyer "Johns!
To "JIM WEST" a community is to ransack all its resources while leaving such community unsatisfied and feeling somewhat dirty!
Dr. Rahe you are right on.
"Chris,
I know you put a lot of time and effort into this work. Your are to be commended for your dedication. However, the tone of your editorial comment is quite testy and even a wee bit bitchy. The map will be approved eventually. Patience!"
Anyone at the meeting with a lick of common sense, who witnessed how incessantly Fox and Hughes ignored the facts before them, would be a little perturbed at the outcome of the meeting. Does the truth hurt?
Hughes, in not so many words, said that Mark McCormack's office did a poor job of reaching the public...that the respondents to the surveys and questionnaires were not a representative portion of the population of Dearborn County. You can mail things to people, but you can't make them read it. You can announce meetings on the radio, but you can't make them listen.
A handful of people made very useful, constructive comments about the Master Plan Map. The majority said, move forward. Fox gets it, Hughes cannot or chooses not to comprehend it ("it" being that the Map is a tool, not a do-all, say-all in the world of development), but both all of a sudden choose to be "for the people" and say "let's see what they have to say." The people that care have been polled. People in power typically rely on advisors for information so that their time and efforts can be focused on making the true decisions.
On a side note, I find it so interesting that Thompson has been put into the so called "no growth" category. Here is a guy with education, experience, and logic, who sifts out the weeds and focuses on the facts before him. Ralph isn't "no growth". He knows that a balance must be achieved. Balance.
One more note: Hughes and Fox did not hesitate to approve the Comprehensive Capital Management Phase I report back in January as prepared by Vieste, as Chis pointed out. But did Hughes poll any of the citizens in Jackson Township who would have been affected by those proposals to see if they knew anything about it? What happened here?
Dr. Rahe, can't afford your taxes? Maybe you are not goughing your patients enough.
Jim West, you say I'm selfish--I've supported Dearborn County by paying taxes since 1972. How long have you been supporting Dearborn County.
Jim West you come across as a very jealous, hateful person; perhaps you get this honestly from your parents.
CLIFF EIBECK also said If you show the interesed business men looking for grownd along I-74, the map with 74 on it. And ask them to point to the place they wish to build your plant along the interstate, then go to the property owners with the name of the party who wants to build on their property. See if the owners are interested to selling.OVER THE EMD!
"...then go to the property owners with the name of the party who wants to build on their property."
You see...there is the proverbial rub...the DCEDI, the Chamber and all their inbred brethren do not want the landowners and the final users of their property to meet, face to face, to bargain, mano to mano...because that may shut down the profits of the "CHOSEN FEW" who want all the gold to themselves...
...the rest of us are just to suck up what dollars that fall through the cracks the "CHOSEN FEW" do not have the time nor energy to pick up and sort through...
...they must rest up for their Tee Times in the morning...don't ya know!
We all must do all we can, no matter the costs to us individually and to our spouses and children, so that the "politically connected" few of this corrupt County can reap their expectant financial windfalls!
"Dr. Rahe you are right on."
The side of the realtor/developers trying so hard to make a dishonest buck at the expense of those who actually own the land so highly praised and sought after by your fellow co-conspiritors!
Here is a novel idea:
IF SOMEONE DESIRES MY LAND FOR THEIR RESIDENTIAL OR COMMERCIAL NEEDS, HOW ABOUT BARGAINING FIRST HAND WITH ME AND NOT USING UGLY AND DECEPTIVE PRACTICES TO KEEP ME OUT OF THE MIX???"
How about that Dr. Rahe?
Rinse...then...spit...and get back to me concerning such proposition!
Dr. Rahe...a dentist...many times wrist deep in someone's funky and neglected mouth...lectures the rest of us on Development matters!
Someone cut off his N2O!
He is well past the giggling phase!
Warren Buffet stopped by this morning and made me an offer and I sold him my farm. It was just between him and I. Jim West and the rest of the development and political crooks should be proud of me. I am no longer a do-nothing.
HOW ABOUT BARGAINING FIRST HAND WITH ME
Wha...wha...what???
Economic prosperity, Dearborn County style, requires the DCEDI Member and/or his minions, as well as the requisite number of realtor/developers, to make the first, middle and final buck on all such transactions!!!
The "landowner" is just an impediment to such profits!!!
Please do not feel sorry for these greedy “landowners!!!”
Face it, with all the money offered each and everyone of these selfish "landowners," they could buy a nice 800 square foot home on a spacious 1/4 acre spread in one of Brett Fehrman's section 8 style subdivisions, without a care in the world for the rest of their lives, as long as they are heavy drinkers, smokers and “x-treme” rock climbers with uncontrollable palsy!!!
Dr. Rahe knocks down buildings to avoid paying taxes. That building would be a good place to house educated dearborn county graduates. Oh, but you want to build where there is no traffic... Look what your political mess has done with Aurora. Drive down those streets and what do you see. a death and dying community that knocks down buildings...
"I am no longer a do-nothing."
As lawyers for the Dearborn County Realtor/Developer/Banker/Land Title Attorneys...
...file suit against you for unfair trade practices!
Such lawyers filing suit, hitherto, paid for by your taxpayer dollars...
...Lehner, Ewbank and Kramer...
...will be the most harsh and abrasive in their zealous representation of all their DCEDI and Chamber Clients, most direly and uniquely affected by your contemptible “one on one” sale!
It is not too late to send your financial “tribute” to such parties who would have gained by your sale but for your egregious lack of offering the kickback customarily expected of you and those of your class!
With Jim West's attitude about the landowner, who does not want to sell their property at rock bottom prices to make his development buddies rich, being selfish, he shows his true colors. All he cares about is turning this county into dollars in his and his employers pockets! Who is really selfish?
When the county is raped, will West take his pockets full of money and go home? He hasn't even brought his family to live here. So what does he care about this County? Are the landowners 'cash cows' for him and his developer employers?
Mr. West needs to take his attitude and taste for Dearborn County money and GO HOME! Maybe he can take the developers with him.
build a new jail and put them all in it...
build a new jail and put them all in it...
First, we all must subsidize Brett's subdivision, to permit ALL those tax dollars generated by those folks living in his subdivision, to pay for such jail, to place Brett and friends in!
Follow such torturous logic and you too could be adopted into the Fehrman clan!
Mr. West says there are people wanting to sell their land near I-74. No one is stopping them. I don't see any "for sale' signs. If they want to sell, they have to let someone know they want to sell!!
"Mr. West says there are people wanting to sell their land near I-74. No one is stopping them. I don't see any "for sale' signs. If they want to sell, they have to let someone know they want to sell!!"
Maybe these "sellers" are of the Chuck Andres variety, holding their cards close to their vest as they devise ways of forcing their neigbors to contribute to the value of their land?
I can just see Pickens, last commissioners' race, with bleach blond, high riding bouffant hair, gushing over all the attention shown him by the local frat boys.
Feel sorry for the poor lost gals that were humiliated by these Frat Boys!
Say a prayer for the poor gals that ended up with these "Alley Catting" overweight and ever-needing to have their manhoods stroked by new stray kittens and not so discriminating one eyed and three legged felines!
Jeff Hughes, you looked a little scrawny at the meeting last night. Tomorrow when you are having Thanksgiving dinner at John Maxwell's, tell John to share some of the turkey with you.
Jeff Hughes, you looked a little scrawny at the meeting last night. Tomorrow when you are having Thanksgiving dinner at John Maxwell's, tell John to share some of the turkey with you.
The Maxwells pay their hired and inherited staff a living wage, once Jeff is done with his duties at the Maxwell household, he will have ample consideration to buy any "Happy Meal" Combo of his choosing!
"How much do you wanna bet, that those, at the top of the list to get roads, utilities, etc to their property will not be non-DCEDI members..."
BINGO!!!!
BINGO!!!!
BINGO!!!!
We have a winner in the "Best Description Of How Inside Politics Works In Dearborn County Corrupt Politics!!!!
This is the third time the Planning Commission has tried to push a future land use map on to Dearborn County property owners. The first two attempts failed and I hope this one does as well. When will the Planning Commission get it? We don’t want the county telling us what to do with our property. Why do they keep wasting time and money on a land use map that is not wanted?
I was at last night’s meeting. Mark McCormack did not have enough handouts. He rushed through the slides in his presentation and had no answer for how this map will affect my land. What gives?
Advisory Board Member Helen Kremer says Map A was the citizen’s wishes. I’m confused. I filled out one of those surveys and I voted for “Property Owner’s should have absolute and final say about what happens to their property,” the choice which received the highest percentage at 36%. So how is it that Map A, the most restrictive of the three maps, was found to be the citizen’s choice? Does the advisory board have their own agenda regardless of what the people say?
To all the nut jobs, whackos, and conspiracy theorists that read and post to this blog, have a
Happy Thanksgiving and please get a life.
To all the nut jobs, whackos, and conspiracy theorists that read and post to this blog, have a
Happy Thanksgiving and please get a life.
Translation:
QUIT GETTING IN OUR WAY AS WE TRY TO TAKE OVER YOUR COUNTY! GIVE COMPLETE CONTROL OF THIS COUNTY TO REALTORS, DEVELOPERS AND LAND TITLE ATTORNEYS, THIS WAY, IT EASIER TO SEND OUT ALL THE FORCED LETTERS AS NEEDED TO TAP INTO YOUR SAVININGS TO BETTER BUFFER OURBOTTOMLINES!!!
True. Our realtor/developers and their cadre believe in absolute property rights...for them. The rest of us are viewed as just collateral to be put up to finance all their respective development plans. We are to pay for their personal business growing enterprises such as the DCEDI and Vieste. We are to be kept in the dark as they make plans for our property, then to give our property away a rates far below these "insider" realtor/developers will sell our property for to commercial buyers.
Our tax dollars and savings are not our "absolute" property in their "absolute property rights" scheme!
The absolute property rights of Development Interest in this County as led to their absolute ownership of the local republican party leadership!
Where republican primary votes only count if the chosen Development candidate is chosen!
If not, Development owners of the republican leadership will just run a Development democrat in the general election against the republican rank and file's chose of candidate!
To all the nut jobs, whackos, and conspiracy theorists that read and post to this blog, have a
Happy Thanksgiving and please get a life.
Oh conspiracy theory! Your underhanded dealings with the Vieste group against property owners in NW wasn't a conspiracy? Don't just wish a Happy Thanksgiving to the development crowd, but also to the good honest people of Dearborn County.
ATTENTION: Property owners in the NW Quadrant. If you are approached by Jim West, Rick Fox, or Jeff Hughes about selling your property, tell them you want to maximize your profits. That you would like to deal with the companies directly. I am sure they won't mind giving you this information since all they are interested in is what is best for Dearborn County. Properties have been bought and sold long before the DCEDI came into being.
Rick Fox, I am a farm owner in NW quadrant. Could I have the phone number for Fidelity, Citibank, and Toyota so I can sell directly to them and not involve all the crooks in Dearborn County.
I was at the meeting Tuesday night and I think Mark McCormack did a great job. I think the whole process was done openly and fair. Just because certain people didn't like the results, now they are criticizing the process and Mark. If the vote would have went for Map C, they would not be so critical. Keep up the good work Mark and the advisory group.
Don't forget folks, Jim West is not looking out for our interests, if our interests do not coincide with the interests of his "clients!"
All of Jim's proclaimations to the contrary, his main goal is to make as much money as possible for his "clients" and that is at our expense!
"...so I can sell directly to them and not involve all the crooks in Dearborn County."
That simply does not fit our Realtor/Developers and their political flunkys' business model!
The many (us) need to step back and away for the few (The DCEDI Crowd) to profit greatly!
Think of dividing up a pie into equal portions.
Then envision Jim West doing the cutting.
Well, no pie for you!
Remember!
Dearborn County is RIPE for development!
Until the residents find out and want a piece of the action!
Then, the selfish landowners will get in the way of the virtuous developers, just trying to make Dearborn County a better place for all of us, gosh darn it!!!!!
"That you would like to deal with the companies directly. I am sure they won't mind giving you this information since all they are interested in is what is best for Dearborn County."
Jim West and friends would make damn sure that you are unable to get your property rezoned until you pay off the requisite number of DCEDI members and investers (whatever the hell that means)!
Your property will be zoned rural until you sell, at rural prices, your land to those who have greater intentions and political connections, to get rich off your investment!
Deal with it!
Your property will be zoned rural until you sell, at rural prices,
However, those still in rural settings, on many acres, surrounding any land the DCEDI cartel would purchase, will have septic system emergencies within the year of the cartel's purchase, thus, the need for sewering all land around the cartel's purchase, greatly reducing the cartel's outlay for sewer infrastructure needed for its development!
Happy Thanksgiving and please get a life.
And a Happy Thanksgiving to you...and please get a second job to support your development wishes!
Life would be much simpler and happier for you if did not always have to rely on underhanded political machinations and taxpayer theft to finance your economic dreams!
Look around Dearborn County, the infrastructure took decades to get to the point where it is today.
Not good enough for our spoiled and entitled current development class.
They want to buy land, on the cheap, where there is no adequate infrastructure to meet their desire for dense, profitable (for them) development and insist that the rest of us get loans, pay higher taxes and accommodate them in all ways which they should demand!
On top of all that, we are called selfish for not spending fast enough to better their fortunes!
Most of these kid realtors/developers/bankers/lawyers demanding so much from the rest of us are second generation, realtors/developers/bankers/lawyers spoiled by their first generation realtors/developers/bankers/lawyers parents and caregivers!
Said parents and caregivers have let their children and the community down!
Jeff, brother Tim, and Jennifer....today would be a good day to make your phone calls. How is THAT process going for you? (Jeff and his family think MArk and his staff did a horrible job because "no one" knows what is going on so they are doing their own scientific gallop poll) What a joke. This commish will call everyone when there is a decision and a vote needs to be made? Where was he when he voted for Vieste without knowing anything about the project? Nothing...."it was just a study" that milked how many thousands of dollars down the drain?
This commish will call everyone when there is a decision and a vote needs to be made?
Maybe Jeff could make public all the poll numbers he studied when forming the DCRSD and giving it the power to force any and all of us on sewers surrounding its board members' developments to subsidize said board members' business interests?
I'm sure he has wheelbarrows of data to share with the rest of us!
Jeff is one of those brillant carpenters who keeps cutting and cutting a board and still complains it is too short!!!
How much public poll data had Jeff generated and studied before approving each and every outlay of money to the DCEDI and Vieste?
It took a year, but Jeff has proven to be the perfect replacement president of the Commissioners...
...it is like Vera never left...
...the inane idiocy and absurd double-talk remains the same!
Maybe Jeff could canvass likely republican primary voters on their feelings about those republicans who spat in their faces last Commissioners's race?
One question:
Should Rick Fox and Jeff Hughes be forced to run as independents in their upcoming re-election attempts?
Maybe Jeff could poll citizens as to their feelings of suborning the perjury of a “connected” realtor/developer as to the filing of false information relative to the capacity of the VRUC to handle the sewage of this “connected” realtor/developer’s proposed subdivision?
HOW MUCH PUBIC INPUT DID HUGHES STUDY WHEN HE AND HIS FELLOW PUBLIC OFFICIALS CUT OFF PUBLIC COMMENT AT THEIR PUBLIC MEETINGS?
OR WAS JUST THE INPUT OF HIS DEVELOPER MASTERS ENOUGH?
Good ole Vieste and its alter-ego, the DCEDI!
They brought everyone into the discussions who had plans on profitting on the land up in the NW Quadrant...
...except...
...those who owned the land!
...except...
...those who owned the land!
They were just waiting until the ownership of such land was quietly bought up by the "RIGHT" people!
Think of dividing up a pie into equal portions.
Then envision Jim West doing the cutting.
Ha! Ha! Ha!
Seinfeld had Yev Kasem, the "Soup Nazi," and we have Jim West, "the Pie Nazi!"
"NO PIE FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Another poll question that might be of interest of Jeff Hughes:
WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW HOW MUCH I KNOW CONCERNING THE VRUC DUMPING MILLIONS OF GALLONS OF RAW SEWAGE INTO OUR WATERWAYS...AND HOW LONG I KNEW IT?
"Maybe Jeff could make public all the poll numbers he studied when forming the DCRSD..."
I'm sure, Jeff and his lovely wife lost many hours of sleep polling the community relative to the community's knowledge of the DCRSD and its proposed goals!!!
In all matters that involve cheerleading for development, Jeff sees no need to dot all the “I’s” or to cross all the “T’s” in his acceptance of all developer friendly motions!
When it comes to any matters not development approved, Jeff requires all the “I’s” dotted and the “T’s” crossed, in all languages and dialects, spoken on the globe!
With extensive follow up studies to make sure all those who may have been away on vacations, honeymoons, fighting in Iraq, those realtor/developer/banker/lawyers known to hide under the beds of their mistresses for long periods of time, or possibly those suffering Alzheimer’s, to make sure that they all have a thorough, meticulous and exhaustive understanding on all such matters!
Chris, I came to the meeting on Tuesday and was one of the property owners that Commissioner Hughes called on Saturday afternoon. I was asked only two questions. First, “had I been officially contacted by the county about the land use map?” And second, “should I be asked about it before the commissioners’ vote on it?” After I answered, he asked me if I would like more information on the issue. I asked why he had called me at this time and he explained that he wanted to make sure the efforts of the Advisory Planning Board were effective in reaching the public. He politely thanked me for my time and said he would get more information to me. I am interested in the county and his questions were not confusing in the least. At the meeting the public spoke for as long as they wanted which is why it lasted for over three hours. Your disparaging remarks about Commissioner Hughes are wrong. It was refreshing for me to hear from my commissioner. It was a first for me and I appreciated it.
Sign your sign...is this a relative? Everyone else that sent in comments to the county were considered if they signed their name and went on record. These comments would have been thrown in the trash when it was done the right way. Who are you and how are you connected to Jeff? What township do you live in? Hogan? Lawrenceburg? Miller? Which is it? The survey Jeff and his family have conducted is silly...Did you get a call from Jeff before he voted on Vieste that milked thousands of dollars out of the county?
It was refreshing for me to hear from my commissioner.
He called me thru his phone callers and I wasn't represented as I stated. My comments were ignored during Hughes discussion of the 7,000 acres of land represented by the people he called.
The called members were used for his "sham" not the pretenses the called indiviuals thought.
Hughes "survey" was a political ploy to make him look good when he seconded Fox's motion to table the comprehensive plan.
It was refreshing for me to hear from my commissioner. It was a first for me and I appreciated it.
What, you did not get all the phone calls when the DCRSD was formed or when Vieste was hired or when the Jeff gave away your money to the DCEDI?
Did he call you and ask you as to your ideas of having one Law Firm representing both the Commissioners and the DCRSD?
But now he calls you!
Interesting!
This Planning process has been going on for years, how many voters received phone calls from Jeff encouraging their participation, no matter where they stood on the issues?
Of course, we know Jeff's masters had him busy over the years rallying those who opposed this entire PUBLIC planning process!
This entire episode takes us all back when Vera made her last minute and irresponsible effort to close down the process leaving Mitter and many others, not on the developers’ short chain, shaking their heads in utter amazement at what a tool Vera truly was!
Jeff is the new and improved tool of Development Interests in this County!
The DCEDI is at this very moment writing an editorial against this plan only to have Jeff sign his name to it and claim to be the author of such editorial!
Jeff does work his tail off for his development superiors, does he not?
I wonder what Democrat his superiors will run when Jeff loses the primary?
Jeff is "Push Polling" for the developer side of this issue, but calls it a "survey!"
I wonder how many times the slanderous terms such as "do-nothings" and "anti-everythings" came up in these "calls" to his constituents?
I wonder how may times "property rights" came up, without any discussion of how development interests are willing to abrogate the "property rights" of others when it suits their bottomlines?
Jeff and friends making their calls and asking questions intending to plant a message negative to the plan, but trying to pretend his interest was just in gauging attitudes of those called.
Someone give this a guy a real job with a decent wage so he does not have to grovel so to these Development Pimps!
"Someone give this a guy a real job with a decent wage so he does not have to grovel so to these Development Pimps!"
A nail gun and a circular saw is all "woodpecker" Jeff can handle.
Jeff is using his "last minute" surveys simply to run interence for his development bosses!
Just another pathetic attempt on Jeff's part to curry their favor!
Maybe Jeff should collect his Commissioner salary on the dresser of what ever development interest he is servicing each pay day!
Has Jeff surveyed the residents of this county concerning "forced hook-ups?"
I would love to have him report back to all of us with his findings!
After Bob Ewbank cleans up the numbers of course!
Jeff lobbys himself on behalf of our local "politically connected" Development Interests, saving these Development Interests on Lobbying expenses!
What a catch Jeff is for those he lobbys for!
Has Jeff surveyed the residents of this county concerning "forced hook-ups?"
If Jeff should ever try such "madness" Bob Ewbank would take away Jeff's phone priviledges and make him stand in some DCEDI corner until he came to his senses!
"I'm sure, Jeff and his lovely wife lost many hours of sleep polling the community relative to the community's knowledge of the DCRSD and its proposed goals!!!"
Jeff is a good little foot soldier, he does what ever he is ordered to do by Col. Ewbank!
Since Col. Ewbank declared war against the county taxpayer, Jeff has been in the trenches firing away at all his neighbors who refused to desert the taxpayers and join the Col. Ewbank's army!
When that taxpayer sniper finally takes Jeff out of the action, his democrat grunt replacement will have big combat boots to fill!
“When that taxpayer sniper finally takes Jeff out the action…..”
What is going on here comments referring to the assassination of an elected public official? It’s wrong, it’s crazy, and it’s criminal.
Even if it's fantasy- let's get back to reality and stop thinking about physically harming people.
Bottom line- Hughes tried to shore up his opposition by some bogus polling.
Yes- it feels good to have some commissioner call one of us peons. But don't be so naive- these people who were called were just tools.
Some folks have trouble with metaphors.
Or at least pretend to not understand the concept.
It is easier to talk about assinations of public officials when all but the most dense know the sniper is the voter voting Jeff out of office and the replacement grunt is yet another Linkmeyer democratic stooge type candidate put up by our corrupt republican leadership!
But of course, you knew that!
Same foolish misdirections by our lowly development interests!
Bottom line- Hughes tried to shore up his opposition by some bogus polling.
Jeff just proved he has no concept of public service other than being a public shill for his development handlers!
Example of a metaphor:
Jeff is a good little foot soldier, he does what ever he is ordered to do by Col. Ewbank!
More examples if metaphors:
No man is an island —John Donne
For ever since that time you went away.
I've been a rabbit burrowed in the wood. —Maurice Sceve
Life is a beach.
Who captains the ship of state?
Now off with you little bloodsucking hideous development creature!!!!!
If = of
But of course, you knew that too!
And Jeff Hughes will be thrown out at home plate next election!
LOL!!!!!
Jeff does not play baseball!!!!!!!!!
NOTICE
Please post on this blog in a manner that "all" those realtor/developer pool boys and girls understand what your point may be!
New rules:
No big words
No words with more than one meaning
No words with more than two syllables (excepting literary flourishes found in Readers Digest or TV Guide)
Poetic license has been here forth proscribed until further notice
And finally
Do not refer to County Crooks as anything other than County Crooks because it may, at times, confuse the County Crooks
"What is going on here comments referring to the assassination of an elected public official? It’s wrong, it’s crazy, and it’s criminal."
Are you also a coyote hunter...per chance?
cut and paste link below:
http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=456&sid=1297296
Sandy Whitehead- I have a question. There are exit ramps in St, Leon and W Harrison. There is land for sale there and in the TIF’s there also. So why isn’t this economic development coming there? If not there- why would you add the NW Quad?
Quite simply Sandy, our "connected" realtor/developers will not be happy until they formulate a plan where the County procures all the farm land required for development and gives it away to these "connected" realtor/developers because they are promising "GROWTH!"
"GROWTH" where all of us share equally in the risks, but only the few "connected" realtor/developers share in the profits!
The economic laws of supply and demand make our "connected" realtor/developers nervous!
Our "connected" realtor/developers need the rest of us to artificially enhance demand by subsidizing the supply!
Truth be told, our "connected" realtor/developers want the rest us to, in essence, provide much of the capital for their development!
As you are well aware, this results merely in the transfer of wealth from the taxpayer to the realtor/developers...as the realtor/developers fallaciously hype it as the creation of wealth and "GROWTH" benefiting us all!
So you mean like forcing neighbors to subsidize the subdivisions of a "connected" realtor developer because the subdivision's taxes will help build the jail(a lie on its face)?
One of the most blantant of examples put forth by one local tard realtor and developer!!!!!!!
Yeah, that guy will not quit until he finds some way to "force" someone, anyone, to subsidize the sewers needed for his subdivision!
Dearborn County cannot offer anyone wishing to build or relocate here any more than Hamilton, Butler or Warren Co. Ohio, or NKY other than "cheap" land.
"Cheap" land with the promise that the rest of us will pay for all the infrastructure needs of such development.
Which is a Win-Win for the someone building here and our local developers.
But only if the taxpayers take it on the chin.
Not to mention the possible loss of our rural heritage.
Anyway, how many people who have lived here their entire lives, or moved here, are complaining that our community does not look enough like Hamilton or Warren Counties?
Those who desire living in a place like Hamilton County, have about a 20 minute ride to Hamilton County.
It is not like Dearborn County is on the dark side of the moon!
Chris, I was at the meeting and there were several exchanges that you have left out of your posting. Are you afraid that putting it all out there will hurt your case? Let’s be fair. And to quote you, “We must remember that ownership of land trumps desires of those who want to change it.” Then why do you want a land use map for the county to use as a “tool” to tell us what we can with our land?
Then why do you want a land use map for the county to use as a “tool” to tell us what we can with our land?
There are only so many dollars available in this county for infrastructure improvement.
Unless we follow the business plans of our local realtor/developers and find ways of "forcing" the taxpayers to finance and subsidize development!
Like it or not, realty is not like the manufacture of widgets!
Realty relies on entire communities to "chip in" to provide the services needed to sustain development!
Without some plan for smart growth, your personal push for profits could bankrupt the community!
If this reality of realty is to harsh for you, look into job retraining!
If the county sent a post card to every county address and less than 600 people responded, what does that say about the thousands of people who did not respond or did not come to their meetings?
Ms. Mueller seems to imply those people don’t care. But maybe the reason the response was so low was that the majority of the property owners don’t want any thing to do with this land use map and that they as owners can decide for themselves what to do with their land.
The "Plan" provides "all" with a heads up as to the relative value of their land.
This places the landowner and the realtor/developer on a level playing field in their negotations over price!
The process of buying up farmland miles and miles away from the needed infrastructure at rural prices and then using political connections to have it sewered and/or other amenites provided by the taxpayer to increase its value, is just not sustainable and more importantly, is not ethical!
Please, Christine I read your postings to catch up on what happens at these meetings. But your bias is so obvious that I can’t tell if I am getting an accurate picture. Could you please do us a favor and leave the yellow journalism to the comments section.
"...maybe the reason the response was so low was that the majority of the property owners don’t want any thing to do with this land use map..."
How about next election we just appoint the candidate who we think the majority supports than choosing the candidate in such an inefficent archaic fashion of simply counting up the votes?
"Could you please do us a favor and leave the yellow journalism to the comments section."
You are free to post here and fill in the blanks where needed!
Or, you could scroll up to the right hand corner of this blog and click on the "Create Blog" button and educate us all via your own blog!
Or you can just continue to bitch and moan because you no longer have a monopoly on picking and choosing what information should be made public!
Yeah, let them create their own blog and since Vera always needs another money gig, they could hire her on to "edit out" all comments not blindly pro-development!!!
Those comments she chooses to "edit out" can be replaced with a little picture of a gavel slamming down!!!
I heard it all when I heard directly from a family member of one of the commishes that "this is just politics" What? IN DEARBORN COUNTY WE PLAY POLITICAL GAMES? One commish really works for the people by taking in the facts, coming to a concise conclusion and making a decision. It really isn't necessary to play "politics".
This is "just politics!"
Everyone knows that everyone wants unrestrained development everywhere in the County!
It seems silly to even have an election next year!
We all know the "peoples' choice" is the team of Fox and Hughes!
Why should we even inconvenience the "people" by making them drive to the polls next year?
I hereby declare Fox and Hughes the winner of next year's election!
Now, let us get back on tract of growth and prosperity!
"...maybe the reason the response was so low was that the majority of the property owners don’t want any thing to do with this land use map..."
Now, since those interested enough to participate in the "planning" process are not devotees of our local "Development Interests," they want to incorporate "mind reading" techniques to figure out what the people "really" want!
Just when you think they finally hit bottom, they bring in a backhoe!
A big point during the meeting was the amount of people that responded to the surveys and voiced their opinion about the land use maps. I'd like to know the election results from the county elections. Percentage of those voicing their opinion on who should be commishes? The percentage not high enough?
The freedom to vote and voice your opinion is there and in place. If you don't act on that freedom, they you should get a call from someone asking what your vote would have been? Sounds like a pretty large task. I'd like to see anyone's opinion on that concept in office. Did I get a call about the Vieste plan before it was voted to pay these guys thousands of dollars? Did I get a call on anything that Mr. Hughes has ever voted on? Will I?
Did I get a call on anything that Mr. Hughes has ever voted on? Will I?
Hughes only hits the phone banks to try to rally the populace in matters beneficial to his development masters!
His goal is not to inform, but to lobby for his masters and distort the opposition's views!
Jeff Hughes continues to insult the Dearborn County voter.
Last year he felt the republican primary voters were too damn stupid to vote the "right" way.
Now, this year, those who "participated" in the planning process are too damn stupid to be listened to!
Jeff Hughes:
"A REAL MAN OF THE SHEEPLE AS LONG AS THEY OBEDIENTLY FOLLOW DEVELOPER APPROVED SHEEPLE HERDERS!!!"
When Jeff Hughes loses next year's primary election, will he offer anecdotal evidence to the Board of Elections that he spoke to many potential voters by phone a week after the election who "would" have voted for him, but for reasons unclear, did not make it to the polls, therefore, he should be permitted to continue "Commissionering" for another 4 years?
Jeff Hughes has sunk from pathetic to pitiable.
I wonder if Jeff conducted a phone survey of those who voted for him and found out a clear majority of those who did not vote would have not voted for him and those who voted for him but have now changed their mind and would not have voted for him...
...would he step down???
"Could you please do us a favor and leave the yellow journalism to the comments section."
So, what are your feelings as to the philosophy and actions of the "Politburo" style Leadership of the Local Republican Party and Central Committee?
I'm sure the Leadership would welcome good, old fashion "yellow journalism" as compared and contrasted as having their internal workings publicly scrutinized for all to see!
Then why do you want a land use map for the county to use as a “tool” to tell us what we can with our land?
Like telling us we must have our land sewered to subsidize the sewers needed for dense development!
That is one big "TOOL" developers are trying to use as they try to tell us what to do with our land!!!!!!!
"Like telling us we must have our land sewered to subsidize the sewers needed for dense development!"
Don't worry, they dropped the whole pretense of the public health requires that all homes on working septic systems have to connect!
Now they just expect us to pay our "fair share" of the developers' sewers or they will sues us with lawyers paid by our taxdollars!
Life is good!
Life is grand!
Life is good!
Is it true that Rick Fox is on the DCEDI board? No wonder he doesn't want to ruffle the feathers. What does it mean to be an "investor" on that board? It says "Dearborn County Economic Development Initiative" Yet, that name is misleading, it is a privately funded AND also a publicly funded group of people. I want to form the Dearborn County Poker Club. Will this be funded as well? Why not? It will have Dearborn County in it's name.
Now that the “rubber stamp” committee is no longer completely in charge and there might be some “scrutiny” as to the handing over of our dollars to the DCEDI, Jim West has been reticent in coming before the Commissioners requesting money!
Interesting!
where is Mitter now? Not in Dearborn County his Wife threw him
out she could not stand him either.
What power hungry fool.
I wonder who was coaching him?
where is Mitter now? Not in Dearborn County his Wife threw him
out she could not stand him either.
What power hungry fool.
I wonder who was coaching him?
And with all his faults he was a tower of integrity as compared to you thieves!
Mitter certainly enabled Vera to show the entire world what an absolute tool and buffoon she was!!!
Yep! Mitter's incredulous undressing of Vera in public was the beginning of the end of her political career!
"Please, Christine I read your postings to catch up on what happens at these meetings. But your bias is so obvious that I can’t tell if I am getting an accurate picture. Could you please do us a favor and leave the yellow journalism to the comments section."
You could always get off your rear end and attend the meetings so that you can see first hand what is happening.
Nevermind, that would be too much effort for you. You'd just rather complain, because Chris doesn't follow the developer dictates!!
"Nevermind, that would be too much effort for you."
Face it, this person's idea of participation in the political process, is tearing down the campaign signs of all Non-Development Approved Candidates or threatening Republicans to vote for the Development Approved Democrat...or else!
The process of buying up farmland miles and miles away from the needed infrastructure at rural prices and then using political connections to have it sewered and/or other amenities provided by the taxpayer to increase its value, is just not sustainable and more importantly, is not ethical!
But...but...but...this is the entire framework of the DCEDI's path to profits!!!
The taxpayer is the source of all profits for DCEDI members!!!
And political connections are the DCEDI's proffered alternative to hard work, perseverance and relying upon the sweat of one’s own brow!!!
As the DCEDI teaches, it takes less energy to steal the savings of others (via political chicanery) than to expend all such energy required to “EARN” the money yourselves!!!
So DCEDI members, keep running for offices, buying up politicians and getting appointed to boards…
…for that gives you unfettered access to the hard-earned dollars of others…
…and that is what the DCEDI philosophy is all about!!!
And remember DCEDI members and would-be DCEDI members, once you are in those offices, on those boards or bought your politicans, don't forget to utilize, to the fullest, those taxpayers' provided attorneys, more than willing to sue the self-same taxpayers into oblivion if they don't fork over their savings to you!
We need more public office holders who are good stewards of our tax dollars and less who view being brokers of our tax dollars as a source of power, prestige and profits.
"more than willing to sue the self-same taxpayers into oblivion if they don't fork over their savings to you!"
I'm sure Bob Ewbank, Frank Kramer, Lisa Lehner and John Watson would be more than happy to give a seminar on such a topic, free to all card carrying DCEDI Members!
Hughes-Complimented the people who worked on this for 9 years. Since it’s been that long- it would be premature to vote on it tonight.
But lets rush into creating and/or financing Vieste, the DCEDI and the DCRSD, right Jeff?
Son, you are as transparent as they come!
Jeff just wants "consider" this plan until sometime after next year's election.
The damn fool still believes there is no Republican Leadership vetted Democrat waiting in the wings to run in his stead in the general election.
Most of the DCEDI membership have already removed his phone number from their cell phones and roledexs.
Rick Fox seems to be finally waking up to the fact that taxpayer subsidized "GROWTH" may not be "GROWTH" at all!
Just government sanctioned theft!!!!!!
Rumor has it he is beginning to see Ewbank for what he is!!!!!!!
Maybe he does not want to wait and verify Ewbank's proclivities when he, Fox, is on the outside looking in, while Bob back-pats Fox's Democrat replacement!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But lets rush into creating and/or financing Vieste, the DCEDI and the DCRSD, right Jeff?
There was not one "peep" from Jeff's beak before Thompson's election, concerning the unfairness and down-right dishonesty of forcing others to finance the sewers of a few politically connected realtor/developers in this County!
Before Thompson, Jeff would have been more than willing to lick and stamp each and every forced hook-up letter sent out!
Johnny Nugent played both Fox and Hughes as total fools encouraging them to "publicly" support Democrat Linkmeyer in last year's election, while Johnny back-tracked something fierce and contended he always supported the Republican in that race!
Rick and Jeff, let this be a lesson to both of you:
Never trust a politician with blood-shot eyes and a red nose!
while Johnny back-tracked something fierce
What a profile in political courage!
"You could always get off your rear end and attend the meetings so that you can see first hand what is happening."
Isn't it fitting, this blog is Chris' private property, so to speak,, and these bullying Development enablers are "dictating" to her what she should do with "HER" property!
Such pompous and arrogant asses, all of them!
“Such pompous and arrogant asses, all of them!”
Remember, these are the same “girly-boy” hypocrites who publicly represent themselves as bastions of all property rights and free speech…
…unless you place a sign on YOUR property expressing YOUR ideas that do not espouse all things pro-development related…
…and then they run crying to one of their political flunkies…
…and have them sue you for expressing YOUR ideas on YOUR property…
…using lawyers…
…paid by YOUR tax dollars!
These rough and tough “men” of development, certainly get their ovaries in a bind when they don’t get their way!
Thompson- what do you consider balance?
Nicole Daily- I’m not sure- I can’t give you a percentage- it would depend on what kind of business you brought in.
Rozow- Don’t know either- we need a study.
Doing studies has become a cottage industry in Dearborn County!
The last major "study" done suggested that the "politically connected" of this County silently buy up farm land in the NW Quad, without informing the residents of the NW Quad the reasons or intending to permit them to share in the profits of such "study!"
In the northwest quadrant plan, the one major player needed to make it work were the landowners.
The DCEDI bankers, lawyers, realtors and developers could have been eliminated.
Why?
Because the landowners could have chosen any of these on their own to fit their needs.
But of course, the objective of the northwest quadrant plan was to enrich the DCEDI bankers, lawyers, realtors and developers at the landowners' expense.
“WE NEED TO DO A STUDY!!!”
The battle cry of the “wheel-spinning” and “clueless” bureaucrat!
The bankers lawyers real estate and developers considered themselves partners in county growth.
The property owners were viewed as necessary but unwanted evils in the quest for all the profits the dcedi types felt entitled to.
A study?
Rozow's idea of a "study" is to give some fellow travelers a list of what he wants and have them come back with a "study" that manifests the same!
The problem with County government is those that want to "serve" the people don't really need the income. Most of what you see and hear is coming from people that are just unemployable.
just unemployable
The next job progression for West and Rozow!
"Rozow's idea of a "study..."
Who needs to pay for a study?
Jeff Hughes will get his wife, brothers and whomever he rents out his basement to, to do a "focused" phone study, guaranteed to come back with whatever results Rozow dictates.
Because the landowners could have chosen any of these on their own to fit their needs.
Wouldn't have been refreshing if West had gone to the NW Quadrant landowners first...then, with their best interests in mind, shopped around to "other" bankers, lawyers, realtors and developers, for the best deal to maximize these landowners' profits?
Instead of the other way around!
Maybe West believes his DCEDI members can just invent "real estate?"
Maybe the DCEDI have a plan to make "landowners" obsolete in regards to DCEDI's members profitting from the exploitation of "landowners'" land?
"Instead of the other way around!"
West, the fool that he is, alienated the folks who were the very gatekeepers of all the fortunes he promised his clients!!!
Someone should give him a "GREAT" letter of recommendation and send him on his way before he does anymore harm!!!
West went on to talk about no growth agricultural interests and referred to them as having emotional responses and caring only about their own selfish needs. He also thought they were hiding behind Agricultural industry.
West, not contented with just burning a few bridges, sets ablaze all the homes and salts every acre of tillable soil owned by that "selfish lot" up in the Quadrant!
Maybe, for his parting shot, he could call our mothers "trollops" and our wives common "camp followers!"
By all means, those of you who have, in the past, "invested" in the DCEDI, should do as you please into the future...but...might I humbly propose that you would do better to invest your dollars in buggy whips or 8-track tape technology?
Sandy Whitehead- Jackson Township
"This is a living document- revisited every couple of years. Change it then- it is not going to prohibit industry and commercial- your infrastructure will limit it. Build from where it exists outward."
The problem, as it stands today, infrastructure is not a limiting factor to those who have no compunction against "forcing" the costs of infrastructure, from any where to any place, on the taxpayer and/or those living around a plot of land a politically connected realtor/developer wants to develop!
Look at the DCRSD for example!
No one even pretends anymore that the DCRSD is anything more than an arm of the local realtor/developers to “force” sewers on those who do not need them to subsidize developers who desire them for their dense development!
How many miles away from existing infrastructure, which has the capacity to handle its sewage, is Gabbard Estates?
I wonder how the phone calls are going.
"I wonder how the phone calls are going."
"HELLO, MR. OR MRS. SMITH, DID YOU KNOW THAT THE ANTI-EVERYTHINGS ARE TRYING TO TAKE AWAY YOUR GOD GIVEN RIGHTS TO FORCE YOUR NEIGHBORS TO FINANCE YOUR BUSINESS INTERESTS AND THAT THE DO-NOTHINGS ARE GOING TO MAKE YOU PLOW UNDER YOUR LAWNS AND FORCE YOU TO GROW CORN OR SOYBEANS WHILE ALSO FORCING YOU TO REMAIN ON YOUR WORKING SEPTIC SYSTEM EVEN IF THE ONLY THING YOU EVER WANTED IN LIFE WAS TO BE CONNECTED TO THE GREATEST SEWERS IN THE UNIVERSE?
THIS CALL WAS JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU WERE INFORMED AS TO TIME AND DATE OF NEXT COMMISSIONERS' MEETING AND NOT TO SWAY YOU ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.
THANK YOU, THOMPSON SUCKS!!!"
…and then they run crying to one of their political flunkies…
…and have them sue you for expressing YOUR ideas on YOUR property…
…using lawyers…
…paid by YOUR tax dollars!
Imagine, if the County had an Attorney “working for” the County and not a conflicted shyster “working against” the better interests of the County, they would have been advised not to pursue such a legal course and saved the taxpayer thousands upon thousands of dollars!
But, of course, when the County Attorney has pecuniary interests in promoting as much development as possible in the County, of course, he or she will do their best to quash all legitimate political speech to the contrary!
Especially, if he or she is a bully at heart!
Jeff wants to keep moving back the goal posts until his development team can squeak by on a techincal!
Usually, the water boy does not have such descretion!
But Jeff has proven to be the number one development water boy, as evidenced by the sheer amount of water he is willing and able to carry for his developer team mates!
Jeff has no respect for the "public" process!
He discounted the "public" process of the Republican Primary last year!
He now demeans both the "public" process and those that "participated" in the Comp Plan process!
But let West, Rozow, Morris and Ewbank lay out a plan, Jeff busts his ass to implement it!
Jeff has become Development’s “BOY TOY!”
Jeff, today wants as much PUBLIC participation as possible...
...but was he not one of the Commissioners who shut down PUBLIC comment at Commissioners' meetings, when such PUBLIC comments got too uncomfortable for Jeff's Development Masters?
Jeff's idea of the right level of public comment is to insure all dcedi members have his number on speed dial!
Rick Fox, you still have a chance at re-election, don't throw your chances away like your dim-bulb partner!
Do not let Hughes set the precedent of changing the rules whenever development interests see fit!
Maybe Hughes should shut down the DCRSD until he surveys the public to make sure "everyone" is apprised of the form and fuction of the DCRSD and to inform the public as to the personal interests of its Board Members and how their possible "conficting interests" may impact their "service" to the DCRSD and the the citizens of Dearborn County????????
The DCRSD's job performance alone should result in its shut down.
The board was to fix High Ridge.
To date, they sewered board member Dennerline's trailer park and spent well over a hundred thousand dollars in legal fees, to try to take over all the sewer districts in the County for the advantage of Development Interests alone.
What happened to High Ridge?
It is now being held hostage until another board member's subdivision is sewered along with the High Ridge fix.
The Comp Plan is a living document and can change as required.
The dcrsd is in place, now, with real potential, now, to affect the residents of this county's life.
But what is Jeff Hughes doing about that?
Uneducated and incompetent individuals need to be removed from office. It's a shame "they" can't see their incompetence and just step down. If you need the income, you should not be in office.
High Ridge?
Isn't there another study concerning High Ridge on going?
Another study sure to inextricably link stemming the tide of High Ridge’s raw sewage flowing into Hogan’s Creek with sewering Gabbard Estates in the process. All through the “charity” of those surrounding Gabbard Estates “donating” their savings to bankroll Gabbard Estates’ sewers!
So, not only do the taxpayers have the “privilege” of paying for fixing the Developer mess that is High Ridge Estates, the taxpayer and those contiguous with Gabbard Estates, get to help finance in part, a yet to be built, future Developer mess!
I cannot wait for this next study to be complete!
This mess brought to you, in part, by the sponsorship of Commissioner Jeff Hughes!
Jeff instead of being a commissioner to make extra money, why don't you ask Charlie Ferman to get you a job with Maxwell Construction. Oh, wait a minute, that didn't work for Charlie. He is still in politics.
Ferman---Fehrman. Sorry for the typo.
Oh, wait a minute, that didn't work for Charlie. He is still in politics.
Busy trying to give away OUR money to HIS friends and family!
This County will slip rapidly from "ripe for development" to "ripe for exploitation," with financially "hungry" and "cash-strapped" politicians easily duped by fast talkers equipped with all so many promises!
West went on to talk about no growth agricultural interests and referred to them as having emotional responses and caring only about their own selfish needs. He also thought they were hiding behind Agricultural industry.
Mr West here was certainly over the top,he remarks totally uncalled for, very unprofessional, perhaps desperate for one who claims 35 years of doing whatever it is that he does. However he can call me any damned thing that he wishes, it means nothing.
The problem is that the DCEDI has, I believe, been politically connected in this county. They might be smarting from their first real defeat, namely the departure from Dearborn County of Mr. Camparato's Vieste and associated companies.
Our problem is to get a reform slate of candidates for County Commissioners in the 2008 election. Mr Fox and MR. Hughes may very well be God fearing ethical, sober, good family men and excellent citizens. However somehow they seem to be, in the opinion of many, the puppets of the unconlled development crowd.
The idea of economic development foisted upon the citizens is not new. A number of years ago a few blue suited red tie C of C people attended a meeting in the basement of the jail(no inference intended!)to propose a county economic development income tax. IT was defeated.
If the DCEDI and the C of C would simply pay their own way for what they wish to do there'd be much less contention.
West and Rozow keep devising ways to ratchet up their clients' profits with our money!
Theirs is a zero-sum game, where the taxpayer is always the premeditated loser of each hand!
West and Rozow have designated themselves as their clients’ “Rainmakers,” doing their best to “rain” our tax dollars onto the barren and dry fields of their hapless patrons!
The Citizens of Dearborn County are just another resource to be mined for the benefit of their benefactors!
While West and Rozow promise their followers the world, they offer the rest of us nothing, other than adding just another expenditure on our already overwhelming list of monetary outlays!
Can you imagine what it's like at the statehouse and worse yet in Washington DC?
Tim Hughes, brother of Jeff, says "it's just politics."
Getting and giving a "Lewinsky" was just politics also!
Problem is, we have far too many politicians willing to give Development Interests "Lewinskys" in this County!
Rick and Jeff are great Commissioners what problem do you
think you could solve?
What problems has T
hompsonssssssssssss solved?
MPT
Oh please!
Rick and Jeff certainly stopped the flow of raw sewage flowing into our waterways with the creation of the DCRSD!
Unless the rest of us pony up and subsidize their development masters, Rick and Jeff will not do squat for the rest of us!
Rick and Jeff are such great commissioners they are trying their level best to remove the "public" from the "public" comprehensive planning process!
They do look out for those DCEDI members pulling their strings!
What problems has T
hompsonssssssssssss solved?
You have noticed that Thompson is steming the theft by you and yours by "forcing" sewers on those who do not need them to subsidize crooks such as yourself?
Before Thompson, it was just a foregone conclusion that you all were just going to bully your way into our savings to better your lifestyles!
THOMPSON stand up at least act like a man...
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