27 June 2005 Dearborn County Plan Commission Meeting Notes
Present: Present: Mark Mitter, Chairman, Jeff Hughes, Patrick de Maynadier, Tarry Feiss, Dennis Kraus, Jr., Robert Laws, Mike Hall, and Nick Held. Absent: Jane Ohlmansiek.
Also present: Travis Miller, Planning Director, and Mark McCormack, Enforcement Officer, and Arnie McGill, Att’y.
1. Tom Kent Gets Approval for replat of Carlee Acres off SR48 and Burns Rd.
One neighbor spoke and one letter was received on this application. The concern with the Burns Rd. access to SR 48 was addressed – Kent explained the delay with utility companies needing to move their utilities prior to the road realignment.
Kent also has the approval of each owner of the sold lots on the replat. This replat creates one more lot with access in case the adjoining owner does not buy that lot (Lot 10). If it is to become buildable it will require septic sites to be approved as well.
Hall motioned and Feiss 2nd to approve the replat with all tech review items addressed and only lot 5 and 10 sharing driveways, lot 4 and 6 to have direct access to Carlee Drive. All ayes.
2. Contrived Roadway Access Leads to Denial for 3-lot Family Subdivision Off West County Line Road in Jackson Township.
Kraus, Jr. and Mike Hall stepped down for this application. Both had surveyed this original land.
Carol Vassil, owner had purchased the land wishing to split it for her and two children. Approval would have required a dimensional variance in street width of 2 ft./ a 950-ft variance in cul de sac length, and a 90 ft. dimensional variance on the two curves. The curves would be widened to allow emergency vehicles to pass. Asphalt pavement was proposed. Four neighbors in the area spoke against the division. Drainage issues due to the flat land and soils in Jackson Township, mosquito control, more traffic (FROM 3 HOUSES!), car lights shining into homes on the property near the road bends, this division being the start of further ones possibly, etc.
The PC members noted that this looked like it was designed to be a one-lot piece originally. The original land already has 5 flag lots on it. There were issues of safety with fire- dept. access on the road. Too many variances requested to fit it in.
De Maynadier motioned and Laws 2nd to deny based on not meeting sections d or c of the standards for granting a variance. All ayes to deny.
Applicant asked if she could come back for 2 lots. The answer was yes, if there were direct access to the main road.
3. Request From Highway Dept. to Change Ordinance Section 450 For 75% Buildout to Trigger Road Acceptance in Subdivisions Denied.
This rule of thumb does not apply in all cases. Plan Commission felt it was better to judge on a case-by-case basis. The county’s interests need to be protected before roads are taken in to inventory.
DeMaynadier motioned and Hughes 2nd to Deny. All ayes to deny.
ADMINISTRATIVE:
1. Draft Budget for 2006 approved with Hughes abstaining and Laws voting nay.
2. BZA may need some language changes in ordinance to clarify enforcement issues such as stop work orders. Discussion on complaint based enforcement ensued. Will advertise this for upcoming hearing later.
3. Patrick deMaynadier will step down form BZA due to being over-committed. PC to select a new member to go to BZA next month.
4. Thursday August 18th 7-9 PM will be next PC Working Session to decide how to work on the Future Land Use Map. Master Plan Advisory Board is not being notified of this yet. The meeting IS OPEN TO THE PUBLIC, though.
5. DOGRIDGE ROAD SUBDIVISION came in for tech review today for phase 1- 44 homes. Mike Hall reiterated that his motion was to have no homes or lots sold until the 2 intersections with SR1 and SR46 were constructed!!! The Board instructed Travis Miller to have Maxwell notified that any work he does on subdivision roads or utilities prior to this is at his own risk. Maxwell is to sign off on that prior to the improvement plan being approved. [NOTE: No lots or homes are to be sold until after the intersections are complete. This will occur at 2ndary approval. The preliminary groundwork is at Maxwell’s risk, should anything fall through from INDOT or ROW issues for those intersections.]
6. A letter from county citizens protesting the St. Leon Sewer hook-ups was passed out to all board members. Travis informed them that the citizens requested that the PC be notified and that Channel 9 – I team was involved.
Meeting adjourned at 10:35 PM
Christine Brauer Mueller
Lawrenceburg Township
Tuesday, June 28, 2005
Thursday, June 23, 2005
The Death of Private Property
Today the Supreme Court ruled that any governmental agency that previously had the ability to wield the right of eminent domain may now seize your property for the public purpose of financial gain. And so they will.
Today the floodgates of corruption and abuse were opened in municipalities and counties across the nation. Forget "blighted neighborhoods", that was only the first insidious step in the process. Now it is justified with only the excuse of increased tax revenue. And it will be.
Today you own property, but if a developer with a friend, or just a corrupt acquaintance, in the right governmental position wants it, it will soon NOT be your property. Moreover, beware if you have an enemy in the right governmental position. All your property may soon be vital to the tax base, purchased at a pittance, and given to a friendly donor.
The scope of potential corruption and abuse boggles the mind.
I suggest an immediate campaign of correspondence with all levels of elected representatives (except of course those who might condemn your home) to do everything possible to reverse this incredible judicial massacre of the fifth amendment to the constitution.
Protect the Flag
This message was sent to Senators Lugar, Bayh and Representative Sodrel of Indiana with regard to the current consideration of a Constitutional Amendment to remove flag desecration as a form of free speech.
If you favor a Constitutional Amendment to protect the flag, send a letter or e-mail to your Congressmen.
"Flag burning or desecration should be outlawed by Constitutional amendment. Burning or desecrating the flag should be no more legal than burning or desecrating a Church, school, someone's home, a park or a business as a form of free speech. Some might even claim the right of free speech in harming or killing a person. We have considered all of these illegal, so should we for the symbol of our Country.
You may say the flag is a piece of cloth and of little value; but, as a symbol of all the Americans who have served and especially those who've died for it, invest it with much more value than a building. If it were not of such value, why would someone burn it to get attention?"
Ralph E. Thompson, Jr., PE, CPE, NSPE
Tuesday, June 21, 2005
21 June 2005 Dearborn County Commissioner Meeting Notes
21 June 2005 Dearborn County Commissioner Meeting Notes
Present: Benning, President, Fox and Hughes.
Also Present: Pickens, Auditor, Messmore, Administrator, and Ewbank, Attorney.
1. Sheriff Dave Lusby presented Senator Johnny Nugent with an old badge (1940’s) from the Sheriff’s Dept. for Nugent’s collection. Lusby said it was in appreciation for his years of service to Dearborn County.
Nugent thanked the commissioners and stated how proud he was of everyone who helped- a team effort- to keep the Riverboat Revenues safe in SE Indiana. Hughes also thanked Nugent for all his efforts.
2. Kathy Nevels from Family Connections for Healthy Families America requested to be on the commissioner’s budget for 2006 for $2500 or more if possible to use as grant matches for their programs. Commissioners voted to put them in the budget, but noted that Council decides what is allowed.
3. Chris McHenry requested Historical Society to be put back into the Commissioner’s budget for $10,000 now that the CVTB no longer funds them. Commissioners used to do it prior to that. She cited the fact that they house the microfilm for recorder’s and clerks office for historical documents and thus relieve those offices of much of the hassle for those requests.
Commissioners voted to put them in the 2006 budget, also noting that Council has the final say.
4. Mark Seiler – Transportation Dept. presented the request for Arbor Ridge sub’n road to be accepted into county roadways. Residents had petitioned to be accepted. $22,000 left on the bond for 700 ft of road off Georgetown. Road has stood 3 years with no problems. Fox wants core samples- ON ALL ROADS TO BE ACCEPTED. Ewbank noted they should use the bond money to pay for the sampling.
5. Mike Davis- Transportation Director noted that the 2 roads left from 2004 are being finished now- Shangri-La and North Hogan. Private company is testing the road.
The 2005 –2006 list was accepted to go out for bids once Ewbank has reviewed paperwork. They will be bid separately as paving, chip/seal, and widening. Plans to do widening in-house possibly. [NOTE: Does the county have the equipment to perform this?]
Davis also wanted to use $15,000 for the testing services- expecting to pay less than that.
White’s Hill will be finished in 3-4 weeks. Fox wants guardrail on appropriate places between Dover and New Alsace on North Dearborn. Hughes wants to get designation numbers for projects for Stateline, Sawdon Ridge, and Mt. Pleasant- the same as was done for North Dearborn. [NOTE: It took years for North Dearborn to get to this point.]
6. Alan Brietenstein – presented a constitutional issue on tax payments. Ewbank noted that he needed to get the federal gov’t to answer the questions, as it was a federal issue.
7. Cary Pickens presented the EMS contracts for 2 ambulances for Aurora- which were signed. Claims and minutes signed.
8. Bryan Messmore- Administrator- got commissioner’s OK to proceed with the bid for camera-recording devices for the sheriff’s dept.
He also received permission for the sheriff to donate old uniforms to Switzerland County. These old ones do not fit the current color scheme of the dept., which is now reversed. [NOTE: Why reverse the color scheme if the uniforms are still good?]
Transportation Plan- identified 26 interested parties to serve on the committee.
9. Bob Ewbank- att’y- presented two ordinances for fee and permit changes in the building and in the transportation departments. Both passed. They will be effective once published for two weeks – probably August 1. (Fox motioned and Benning 2nd on this with all 3 ayes.)
10. Benning yielded to Chris McHenry who made brief comments on Dave Denman’s death last week. Denman contributed much to historic preservation in the county- and will be missed.
11. Benning read into the record that the sewer district had a $357,000 loan from council and currently has $366,939.29 in their fund. The fund is 394.00 in the commissioner’s budget. She noted they were in need of money.
THERE IS ONLY ONE MEETING IN JULY- JULY 5th.
Meeting adjourned at 7:45 PM
Christine Brauer Mueller
Lawrenceburg Township
Present: Benning, President, Fox and Hughes.
Also Present: Pickens, Auditor, Messmore, Administrator, and Ewbank, Attorney.
1. Sheriff Dave Lusby presented Senator Johnny Nugent with an old badge (1940’s) from the Sheriff’s Dept. for Nugent’s collection. Lusby said it was in appreciation for his years of service to Dearborn County.
Nugent thanked the commissioners and stated how proud he was of everyone who helped- a team effort- to keep the Riverboat Revenues safe in SE Indiana. Hughes also thanked Nugent for all his efforts.
2. Kathy Nevels from Family Connections for Healthy Families America requested to be on the commissioner’s budget for 2006 for $2500 or more if possible to use as grant matches for their programs. Commissioners voted to put them in the budget, but noted that Council decides what is allowed.
3. Chris McHenry requested Historical Society to be put back into the Commissioner’s budget for $10,000 now that the CVTB no longer funds them. Commissioners used to do it prior to that. She cited the fact that they house the microfilm for recorder’s and clerks office for historical documents and thus relieve those offices of much of the hassle for those requests.
Commissioners voted to put them in the 2006 budget, also noting that Council has the final say.
4. Mark Seiler – Transportation Dept. presented the request for Arbor Ridge sub’n road to be accepted into county roadways. Residents had petitioned to be accepted. $22,000 left on the bond for 700 ft of road off Georgetown. Road has stood 3 years with no problems. Fox wants core samples- ON ALL ROADS TO BE ACCEPTED. Ewbank noted they should use the bond money to pay for the sampling.
5. Mike Davis- Transportation Director noted that the 2 roads left from 2004 are being finished now- Shangri-La and North Hogan. Private company is testing the road.
The 2005 –2006 list was accepted to go out for bids once Ewbank has reviewed paperwork. They will be bid separately as paving, chip/seal, and widening. Plans to do widening in-house possibly. [NOTE: Does the county have the equipment to perform this?]
Davis also wanted to use $15,000 for the testing services- expecting to pay less than that.
White’s Hill will be finished in 3-4 weeks. Fox wants guardrail on appropriate places between Dover and New Alsace on North Dearborn. Hughes wants to get designation numbers for projects for Stateline, Sawdon Ridge, and Mt. Pleasant- the same as was done for North Dearborn. [NOTE: It took years for North Dearborn to get to this point.]
6. Alan Brietenstein – presented a constitutional issue on tax payments. Ewbank noted that he needed to get the federal gov’t to answer the questions, as it was a federal issue.
7. Cary Pickens presented the EMS contracts for 2 ambulances for Aurora- which were signed. Claims and minutes signed.
8. Bryan Messmore- Administrator- got commissioner’s OK to proceed with the bid for camera-recording devices for the sheriff’s dept.
He also received permission for the sheriff to donate old uniforms to Switzerland County. These old ones do not fit the current color scheme of the dept., which is now reversed. [NOTE: Why reverse the color scheme if the uniforms are still good?]
Transportation Plan- identified 26 interested parties to serve on the committee.
9. Bob Ewbank- att’y- presented two ordinances for fee and permit changes in the building and in the transportation departments. Both passed. They will be effective once published for two weeks – probably August 1. (Fox motioned and Benning 2nd on this with all 3 ayes.)
10. Benning yielded to Chris McHenry who made brief comments on Dave Denman’s death last week. Denman contributed much to historic preservation in the county- and will be missed.
11. Benning read into the record that the sewer district had a $357,000 loan from council and currently has $366,939.29 in their fund. The fund is 394.00 in the commissioner’s budget. She noted they were in need of money.
THERE IS ONLY ONE MEETING IN JULY- JULY 5th.
Meeting adjourned at 7:45 PM
Christine Brauer Mueller
Lawrenceburg Township
Thursday, June 09, 2005
Greg Guerrettaz Gives Excellent Fiscal Impact of Development Presentation
8 June 2005 Fiscal Impact of Land Use Decisions- Plan Commission Working Session
Guest Speaker- Greg Guerrettaz an economist from Hendricks County from Financial Solutions Group, Inc. Guerrettaz has twenty years experience in school and township budgeting and is quite familiar with many Indiana counties. In his talk he went into much greater detail than expected on county fiscal details and impacts. It is unfortunate that more people (and politicians) weren’t present to hear it.
Attendees besides the majority of Plan Commission and BZA members included representatives from the DCEDI, a representative of the Chamber of Commerce, a homebuilder/developer, one county commissioner, one county council member, and 6 citizens.
Guerrettaz’s PowerPoint presentation tied the fiscal impacts of land use designations (Ag/Open Space, Residential, and Commercial/Industrial) to our specific Master Plan.
He emphasized that just as our master plan is a living document, so is the fiscal impact study. Both need to be reviewed on a regular basis to be certain they are appropriate to the current times and conditions in the county.
He used 1782 notices from the Dept. of Local Government Finance to get an economic picture of our county. These forms have an appropriations section that summarizes how our tax revenues are spent.
With a 17-18% growth rate, it is critical to now where that growth is originating. It also is critical to understand how we are going to pay for it. He noted our lack of a 10-year road plan, the 21% expulsion rate from L-bg Schools, when the state average is 13.9%, and our fairly decent amount of park space.
Using data from Hendricks County and a point system, he showed some examples of how to potentially balance development, not only by balancing high end homes with low end ones (and the resulting taxable incomes, for example COIT, of the families in those homes), but also by utilizing VOLUNTARY IMPACT FEES as a means of softening the effects of development on fire/EMS, schools, and infrastructure. He noted that fire/ems staff requires a minimum of 3 per shift ( x 2- 3 shifts) and if the voluntary have to be replaced by paid staff, the cost is approximately $45-70,000 per staffer. The recommended ratio is 1 police officer and 1 fireman to every 500 people.
The basic premise of the entire presentation is to create a balance of land uses, so that the fiscal impacts upon the taxpayers are minimized, while still preserving a good quality of life. This means a VARIETY of housing choices, CONSERVATION of farmland and open space to preserve the economy and quality of life, and ATTRACTING business and commercial opportunities for the residents that will help offset their costs on the system.
It was noted that an independent fiscal analysis is better than having ones prepared by developers, for obvious reasons. Not all developers pay their fair share of impact- even within our own county. A few here are VOLUNTEERING to fix roadways and add infrastructure, almost like generating their own impact fee. So far, our Plan Commission has yet to deny based upon the lack of volunteering from a developer.
Examples were given that show that $100-150,000- even 200,000 home do not pay for all their services in taxes. The average was near $225,000 or upwards before a home was paying enough in taxes to offset their services. He noted that as populations increase; so do jail populations in DIRECT PROPORTION! He also noted that sheriffs would tell you that there is a direct correlation between the home value and the number of police calls to the area.
Guerrettaz showed data that explained a problem in school funding formulas. Apparently, if a school district grows at too high a rate, the target revenue received from the state can be as low as half of what is needed. This revenue then has to be made up on the local level. It would be critical to know where these levels are in our three local districts and how the growth in these districts should be managed to offset this. (We’re back to the concept of pacing and placing development.)
Facts to note included that for every $1 of Residential tax it takes $1.20-1.50 to provide services. For Commercial it takes $.30-.75 for services, and for Ag it’s $.20-.40.
In Dearborn County using limited data at this point, Guerrettaz estimated our particular ratios to be as follows: Residential $1.00/1.18, Industrial/Commercial as $1.00/0.64 and Ag/ Open space as $1.00/0.36.
Using our last year’s tax info he noted that we have $21 million in revenue with $19.7 million in expenditures. There was a $3.097 million loss on residential, a $2.824 million gain on commercial, and a $3.121million gain on Ag/open space lands.
There is a concern with getting this data for the unincorporated county only. The towns and cities need to be included in the balancing of this development pattern, because the heaviest development and businesses are located there due to infrastructure. To forget how we all fit together would be a huge mistake in planning.
The conclusion was not to stop all growth, but to manage and balance it. Voluntary impact fees from developers might help offset the issues involved. Clearly a current snapshot of the county patterns is useful, but equally important, is to update that database annually and to continually communicate those numbers to the citizens, business people, and schools in the entire county.
Christine Brauer Mueller
Lawrenceburg Township
Guest Speaker- Greg Guerrettaz an economist from Hendricks County from Financial Solutions Group, Inc. Guerrettaz has twenty years experience in school and township budgeting and is quite familiar with many Indiana counties. In his talk he went into much greater detail than expected on county fiscal details and impacts. It is unfortunate that more people (and politicians) weren’t present to hear it.
Attendees besides the majority of Plan Commission and BZA members included representatives from the DCEDI, a representative of the Chamber of Commerce, a homebuilder/developer, one county commissioner, one county council member, and 6 citizens.
Guerrettaz’s PowerPoint presentation tied the fiscal impacts of land use designations (Ag/Open Space, Residential, and Commercial/Industrial) to our specific Master Plan.
He emphasized that just as our master plan is a living document, so is the fiscal impact study. Both need to be reviewed on a regular basis to be certain they are appropriate to the current times and conditions in the county.
He used 1782 notices from the Dept. of Local Government Finance to get an economic picture of our county. These forms have an appropriations section that summarizes how our tax revenues are spent.
With a 17-18% growth rate, it is critical to now where that growth is originating. It also is critical to understand how we are going to pay for it. He noted our lack of a 10-year road plan, the 21% expulsion rate from L-bg Schools, when the state average is 13.9%, and our fairly decent amount of park space.
Using data from Hendricks County and a point system, he showed some examples of how to potentially balance development, not only by balancing high end homes with low end ones (and the resulting taxable incomes, for example COIT, of the families in those homes), but also by utilizing VOLUNTARY IMPACT FEES as a means of softening the effects of development on fire/EMS, schools, and infrastructure. He noted that fire/ems staff requires a minimum of 3 per shift ( x 2- 3 shifts) and if the voluntary have to be replaced by paid staff, the cost is approximately $45-70,000 per staffer. The recommended ratio is 1 police officer and 1 fireman to every 500 people.
The basic premise of the entire presentation is to create a balance of land uses, so that the fiscal impacts upon the taxpayers are minimized, while still preserving a good quality of life. This means a VARIETY of housing choices, CONSERVATION of farmland and open space to preserve the economy and quality of life, and ATTRACTING business and commercial opportunities for the residents that will help offset their costs on the system.
It was noted that an independent fiscal analysis is better than having ones prepared by developers, for obvious reasons. Not all developers pay their fair share of impact- even within our own county. A few here are VOLUNTEERING to fix roadways and add infrastructure, almost like generating their own impact fee. So far, our Plan Commission has yet to deny based upon the lack of volunteering from a developer.
Examples were given that show that $100-150,000- even 200,000 home do not pay for all their services in taxes. The average was near $225,000 or upwards before a home was paying enough in taxes to offset their services. He noted that as populations increase; so do jail populations in DIRECT PROPORTION! He also noted that sheriffs would tell you that there is a direct correlation between the home value and the number of police calls to the area.
Guerrettaz showed data that explained a problem in school funding formulas. Apparently, if a school district grows at too high a rate, the target revenue received from the state can be as low as half of what is needed. This revenue then has to be made up on the local level. It would be critical to know where these levels are in our three local districts and how the growth in these districts should be managed to offset this. (We’re back to the concept of pacing and placing development.)
Facts to note included that for every $1 of Residential tax it takes $1.20-1.50 to provide services. For Commercial it takes $.30-.75 for services, and for Ag it’s $.20-.40.
In Dearborn County using limited data at this point, Guerrettaz estimated our particular ratios to be as follows: Residential $1.00/1.18, Industrial/Commercial as $1.00/0.64 and Ag/ Open space as $1.00/0.36.
Using our last year’s tax info he noted that we have $21 million in revenue with $19.7 million in expenditures. There was a $3.097 million loss on residential, a $2.824 million gain on commercial, and a $3.121million gain on Ag/open space lands.
There is a concern with getting this data for the unincorporated county only. The towns and cities need to be included in the balancing of this development pattern, because the heaviest development and businesses are located there due to infrastructure. To forget how we all fit together would be a huge mistake in planning.
The conclusion was not to stop all growth, but to manage and balance it. Voluntary impact fees from developers might help offset the issues involved. Clearly a current snapshot of the county patterns is useful, but equally important, is to update that database annually and to continually communicate those numbers to the citizens, business people, and schools in the entire county.
Christine Brauer Mueller
Lawrenceburg Township
Wednesday, June 08, 2005
7 June 2005 County Commissioners Meeting Notes
7 June 2005 County Commissioners Meeting Notes
Present: Vera Benning, President, Jeff Hughes, and Rick Fox.
Also Present: Cary Pickens, Auditor, Bryan Messmore, County Adm., and Bob Ewbank, Attorney.
The agenda for this meeting includes a statement: “During the Public Hearing, public comments are welcomed.”
1. Zone change sails through at SR1
No Public spoke at the hearing for the zone change request from Anthony Bischoff from Ag to H-1 on 1.53 acres in Kelso Township on SR 1. Fox motioned and Hughes 2nd to approve noting the 5 criteria for a zone change but, as usual, not stating any particulars as to how they were achieved. Zone change granted.
2. Sometimes when you lose, you win
The plan commission recommended two zoning ordinance changes but only one was passed. Cul de sac streets defined and updated to include up to 30 homes on the 1200 ft. length was passed unanimously. (Article 3, 305 N and Article 6 definitions)
The Traffic impact studies clarifications and also the specification to allow the plan commission to select, with the consent of the developer, the company to do the traffic study on developments of over 100 homes was unanimously denied. Two citizens spoke at this. It was clear that the developers and related consultants in the county were concerned about a lack of trust in the certified engineers stamp on such studies. It was also clear that these commissioners have had little experience with the discrepancies in the various traffic analyses that have been submitted over the past few years. [NOTE: Anti-development groups will be breathing a huge sigh of relief that this failed, because this leaves much more for “discussion” on traffic studies and the results. Even with a “stamp” the fact that a study is commissioned and paid for by the developer, means that the services purchased are not 100% objective.
It should also be noted that the commissioners have yet to hire the county’s engineer and therefore an objective person, whose salary is paid by the county, is not available to analyze results of studies done on county roads.
Lastly, the county commissioners seem naïve in their blind faith regarding “the stamp.” I have seen state road studies done by reputable companies using data that are NOT UP TO DATE. They are “stamped”- and it’s clear that they cite their source of data, so it is not a “lie”, and yet it is not accurate, because it may be using counts that are 5 years old, or using aerials of the study area that are old and don’t show all the current houses, so they don’t have accurate predictors of current road trips generated. Fortunately, the plan commission still has the ability to accept or reject the studies submitted.]
3. Beckley back-doors migrant housing request- delays public hearing
Commissioners voted to sign the migrant housing grant request for Beiersdorfer Orchard. Notice failed to get to the paper on time for the public hearing and so it will be held on June 14 at the commissioner’s WORKING MEETING! [NOTE: These meetings are not to have decisions, per the county attorney. As usual, Beckley brings his requests in last minute, hurry, hurry, hurry. So why were the “rules” suspended?]
4. Soil and Water Updates Erosion Control Ordinance
Jennifer Hughes of Soil and Water presented the updated ordinance on erosion control with the backing of the county building inspector. The old ordinance had been legally challenged. This one is based on legally sound ones from other areas in the state. No public commented at this hearing. Commissioners passed it unanimously to become effective August 1 after it is published for 2 weeks in the paper.
5. Transportation Dept. Finally Gets Annual Report Signed With One Day To Submit
Davis also reported on maintenance items continuing and guardrail being put up.
6. Bridge Inventory Complete with Prioritized List for Repairs and Rehab
United Consulting (Jeff Larrison, Andrew Share and John Klinefelter (sp?) presented three binders of data to commissioners and elaborated on the bridges needing work. (19 replacements, 5 rehabs, and 30 repairs) Some bridges require inspections every 6 mo to 1 year because of “problems.”
7. Triple Whipple Gets Commissioner’s Blessing to be Rehabbed.
Davis Denman of Historical Landmarks and John Graf, PE presented info. County share of this project is to be $278,000 in 2005 dollars. The “cheaper to keep her” mantra was resurrected again- the same slogan we’ve been hearing for nearly 10 years on this bridge. It will help complete the bike trail from Greendale to Rising Sun. It will also be an alternate in emergencies, though it will not take vehicular traffic. This bridge, built in 1878,is the last bridge of it’s kind in the US.
8. Rising Sun Medical Center Requests Funds for Indigent Patients
Cherie Hall and Dr. Scudder presented a request to get money to help defray costs of their clinic, which treats indigent patients on a sliding scale. They are not-for-profit and have an annual budget of $800,000. This year they were $81,000 in the hole. They started with 3000 charts in 1999 and now have 6000. They see Heart House patients and migrant workers also. Fox wanted then to seek out Argosy for funding as a “good neighbor.” And Rising Sun is already using $225,000 to subsidize them from gambling revenue. Commissioners approved them to see Council in August.
9. North Dearborn Road Design- Contract Extended
Council has allotted $223,000 each year for the next 5 years for this project. The state is keeping us on the list for state match. They are starting the design work for the road and bridge on North Dearborn right after Mike Davis gives them notice to proceed tomorrow per Dick Robertson of CEA.
10.Lifetime Resources Refinances Senior Housing and Sends Money Back to State for First time Homebuyers
LuAnn Male got approval for a refinancing of the North Dearborn senior Housing from 7% to 2% loan. She also received the OK to send $220,000 back to the state on First Time Homebuyers Assistance. They kept $80,000. There were difficulties getting enough eligible recipients in the time allotted for the grant. She also received approval to go for owner occupied rehab grant with an emphasis on elderly for 20 homes. No local match is required.
11. Claims and Minutes signed.
12. Jeff Hughes- still waiting on donations to finish the plaque for Al Werner and to set up a dedication ceremony. (Werner was the county’s first building inspector and recently retired)
13. Rick Fox- took road tour with Mike Davis and would like to do more bridges in-house to save money.
14. Vera Benning- read letters from Lifetime Resources (that went with the previous request in #10. She also had Fox read a geological approval on rehab that also went with previous requests.
Benning reminded commissioners of 3 meetings on Wednesday:
Chamber of Commerce at 7:30 AM with GIS, Mark Neff, Ec. Dev Task Force, and Business and Industry Update.
DCEDI Press Conference at Argosy at 10:30 AM on the UC students’ study of Dearborn County
Fiscal Impact Study presentation for land Uses at L-bg Library 7-9PM
Meeting adjourned at 8:40 PM
Christine Brauer Mueller
Lawrenceburg Township
Present: Vera Benning, President, Jeff Hughes, and Rick Fox.
Also Present: Cary Pickens, Auditor, Bryan Messmore, County Adm., and Bob Ewbank, Attorney.
The agenda for this meeting includes a statement: “During the Public Hearing, public comments are welcomed.”
1. Zone change sails through at SR1
No Public spoke at the hearing for the zone change request from Anthony Bischoff from Ag to H-1 on 1.53 acres in Kelso Township on SR 1. Fox motioned and Hughes 2nd to approve noting the 5 criteria for a zone change but, as usual, not stating any particulars as to how they were achieved. Zone change granted.
2. Sometimes when you lose, you win
The plan commission recommended two zoning ordinance changes but only one was passed. Cul de sac streets defined and updated to include up to 30 homes on the 1200 ft. length was passed unanimously. (Article 3, 305 N and Article 6 definitions)
The Traffic impact studies clarifications and also the specification to allow the plan commission to select, with the consent of the developer, the company to do the traffic study on developments of over 100 homes was unanimously denied. Two citizens spoke at this. It was clear that the developers and related consultants in the county were concerned about a lack of trust in the certified engineers stamp on such studies. It was also clear that these commissioners have had little experience with the discrepancies in the various traffic analyses that have been submitted over the past few years. [NOTE: Anti-development groups will be breathing a huge sigh of relief that this failed, because this leaves much more for “discussion” on traffic studies and the results. Even with a “stamp” the fact that a study is commissioned and paid for by the developer, means that the services purchased are not 100% objective.
It should also be noted that the commissioners have yet to hire the county’s engineer and therefore an objective person, whose salary is paid by the county, is not available to analyze results of studies done on county roads.
Lastly, the county commissioners seem naïve in their blind faith regarding “the stamp.” I have seen state road studies done by reputable companies using data that are NOT UP TO DATE. They are “stamped”- and it’s clear that they cite their source of data, so it is not a “lie”, and yet it is not accurate, because it may be using counts that are 5 years old, or using aerials of the study area that are old and don’t show all the current houses, so they don’t have accurate predictors of current road trips generated. Fortunately, the plan commission still has the ability to accept or reject the studies submitted.]
3. Beckley back-doors migrant housing request- delays public hearing
Commissioners voted to sign the migrant housing grant request for Beiersdorfer Orchard. Notice failed to get to the paper on time for the public hearing and so it will be held on June 14 at the commissioner’s WORKING MEETING! [NOTE: These meetings are not to have decisions, per the county attorney. As usual, Beckley brings his requests in last minute, hurry, hurry, hurry. So why were the “rules” suspended?]
4. Soil and Water Updates Erosion Control Ordinance
Jennifer Hughes of Soil and Water presented the updated ordinance on erosion control with the backing of the county building inspector. The old ordinance had been legally challenged. This one is based on legally sound ones from other areas in the state. No public commented at this hearing. Commissioners passed it unanimously to become effective August 1 after it is published for 2 weeks in the paper.
5. Transportation Dept. Finally Gets Annual Report Signed With One Day To Submit
Davis also reported on maintenance items continuing and guardrail being put up.
6. Bridge Inventory Complete with Prioritized List for Repairs and Rehab
United Consulting (Jeff Larrison, Andrew Share and John Klinefelter (sp?) presented three binders of data to commissioners and elaborated on the bridges needing work. (19 replacements, 5 rehabs, and 30 repairs) Some bridges require inspections every 6 mo to 1 year because of “problems.”
7. Triple Whipple Gets Commissioner’s Blessing to be Rehabbed.
Davis Denman of Historical Landmarks and John Graf, PE presented info. County share of this project is to be $278,000 in 2005 dollars. The “cheaper to keep her” mantra was resurrected again- the same slogan we’ve been hearing for nearly 10 years on this bridge. It will help complete the bike trail from Greendale to Rising Sun. It will also be an alternate in emergencies, though it will not take vehicular traffic. This bridge, built in 1878,is the last bridge of it’s kind in the US.
8. Rising Sun Medical Center Requests Funds for Indigent Patients
Cherie Hall and Dr. Scudder presented a request to get money to help defray costs of their clinic, which treats indigent patients on a sliding scale. They are not-for-profit and have an annual budget of $800,000. This year they were $81,000 in the hole. They started with 3000 charts in 1999 and now have 6000. They see Heart House patients and migrant workers also. Fox wanted then to seek out Argosy for funding as a “good neighbor.” And Rising Sun is already using $225,000 to subsidize them from gambling revenue. Commissioners approved them to see Council in August.
9. North Dearborn Road Design- Contract Extended
Council has allotted $223,000 each year for the next 5 years for this project. The state is keeping us on the list for state match. They are starting the design work for the road and bridge on North Dearborn right after Mike Davis gives them notice to proceed tomorrow per Dick Robertson of CEA.
10.Lifetime Resources Refinances Senior Housing and Sends Money Back to State for First time Homebuyers
LuAnn Male got approval for a refinancing of the North Dearborn senior Housing from 7% to 2% loan. She also received the OK to send $220,000 back to the state on First Time Homebuyers Assistance. They kept $80,000. There were difficulties getting enough eligible recipients in the time allotted for the grant. She also received approval to go for owner occupied rehab grant with an emphasis on elderly for 20 homes. No local match is required.
11. Claims and Minutes signed.
12. Jeff Hughes- still waiting on donations to finish the plaque for Al Werner and to set up a dedication ceremony. (Werner was the county’s first building inspector and recently retired)
13. Rick Fox- took road tour with Mike Davis and would like to do more bridges in-house to save money.
14. Vera Benning- read letters from Lifetime Resources (that went with the previous request in #10. She also had Fox read a geological approval on rehab that also went with previous requests.
Benning reminded commissioners of 3 meetings on Wednesday:
Chamber of Commerce at 7:30 AM with GIS, Mark Neff, Ec. Dev Task Force, and Business and Industry Update.
DCEDI Press Conference at Argosy at 10:30 AM on the UC students’ study of Dearborn County
Fiscal Impact Study presentation for land Uses at L-bg Library 7-9PM
Meeting adjourned at 8:40 PM
Christine Brauer Mueller
Lawrenceburg Township
Tuesday, June 07, 2005
Schools, Taxes and Rural Development
Mrs. Loveland and Mr. Freemond are both correct, however Mr Freemond did not go far enough. The residential development does not add "nothing". It adds all kinds of problems and costs.
What it does add is school crowding, higher taxes to pay for the increased number of students brought into the district, a reduction in the rural character of the County and the reduction in the quality of education in the County.
The misuse of school funding will eventually require higher taxes to fund the increased cost of education and higher administration costs. Also, more taxes will be added to build more facilities to serve the additional students provided by the residential development. The current increases in education costs, as pointed out by Mrs. Loveland previously are not adding any significant increase in student capacity.
The push to develop agricultural land into high density will add to that tax burden, as Dearborn County residents subsidize the newcomers. Each new student will require much more in costs than can ever be provided by the taxes paid by each new residence.
Our neighbors to the east are wanting to take advantage of our current lower taxes and quality educational facilities; but, they will bring with them the very problems they are fleeing.
These discussions on education do not include all the other cost increases the developers foist off on the County, such as, roads, fire and EMT personnel and equipment, government administration costs, the impact of sewage, the impact of storm water run off, etc. It also does not include the increased cost of utilities to upgrade their systems, that the utility companies will pass through to all their users not just the new users driving that increase.
These are part of the overall problem.
Mr. Freemond is absolutely correct in indicating the need for industry (not commercial) additions to the County. Industry will help with the taxes, since they require less in service costs than they pay in taxes (just like agricultural). Industry also provides the added benefit of adding income producing employment in the County.
The key to resolving these issues, is to put pressure on the elected officials of the school boards and on our County Commissioners, to make them responsible for their actions and, if they don't change or resolve the problem, to vote them out of office. Our County Commissioners have continued to support and enable the developers, not the best interests of the citizens of the County.
Otherwise, the developers will continue to get rich and the school board administration will benefit with high salaries and more facilities to control at the expense of the citizens of this County.
Ralph E. Thompson, Jr., PE, CPE, NSPE
A citizen of Dearborn County
Attacking Fiscal Failures - Other facets to consider
Mrs.Loveland has done a masterful and obviously time consuming job of explaining to us the financial situation of our educational system in Dearborn County.
Her point of attack is that of the wrong use of what educational funds are available. I tend to agree with her premises although my faculty career was not at the primary and secondary school level.
What we must do is have a three pronged attack. The first is as described by Mrs. Loveland.
The second point of attack concerns the almost indiscriminate conversion of agricultural land to residential land which results in the building of subdivisions and hence the importation of more and more students to homes from which the state and county taxes are insignificant. The subdivisions bring in people who find Dearborn County property taxes and Indiana income taxes a relief as compared to their cumulative tax burdens in Cincinnati, Ohio, Hamilton County Ohio, and the state of Ohio.
The third point of attack must be to improve the ratio of residential to industrial tax receipts. So far the Chamber of Commerce and the Economic Development people have failed in this task.
I have complained about the burden placed upon our school system by the development of subdivisions for many years. Other than one elderly developer who years ago replied "something always happens" no one answers my question about subdivisions and school finances.
At the present time subdivisions are a negative for this county. They contribute nothing.
Alan Freemond Sr.
Her point of attack is that of the wrong use of what educational funds are available. I tend to agree with her premises although my faculty career was not at the primary and secondary school level.
What we must do is have a three pronged attack. The first is as described by Mrs. Loveland.
The second point of attack concerns the almost indiscriminate conversion of agricultural land to residential land which results in the building of subdivisions and hence the importation of more and more students to homes from which the state and county taxes are insignificant. The subdivisions bring in people who find Dearborn County property taxes and Indiana income taxes a relief as compared to their cumulative tax burdens in Cincinnati, Ohio, Hamilton County Ohio, and the state of Ohio.
The third point of attack must be to improve the ratio of residential to industrial tax receipts. So far the Chamber of Commerce and the Economic Development people have failed in this task.
I have complained about the burden placed upon our school system by the development of subdivisions for many years. Other than one elderly developer who years ago replied "something always happens" no one answers my question about subdivisions and school finances.
At the present time subdivisions are a negative for this county. They contribute nothing.
Alan Freemond Sr.
Faculty Cuts, Administrative Raises, and Fiscal Irresponsibility
A solid foundation in statistics and mathematics is necessary to fully grasp recent front-page education news.
In April, blaming state funding cuts, Sunman Dearborn announced the elimination of five full time and four part time faculty positions. In May, the administration awarded nearly $79,000 in administrative salary increases. Sunman Dearborn did cut one administrator and total administrative costs will be less. All things considered, is this the time to give administrators raises?
The justification for these raises was bringing salaries to state averages. The current salary for the Superintendent is $103,416. If this is below state average, Indiana is paying it’s administrators much more than most states. The 2004-2005 Occupational Outlook Handbook lists the average Salary for Directors, managers, coordinators, and supervisors, finance and business personnel in 2002-2003 at $81,451. Indiana school administrators must have had huge cost of living adjustments over the last two years. Principals earned an average of $75,291-$86,452 and Assistant Principals earned an average of $62,230-$70,874. (See Page 35 of the OOH)
Sadly, Sunman Dearborn could replace two of their retiring teachers with new teachers and spend less than what administrative raises will cost.
Together, Sunman Dearborn and South Dearborn Superintendents brought our next bit of bad news. Our property taxes will be going up. The state is “holding a gun to the heads of local administrators” said Book.
Unfortunately the math wasn’t completed for us. So I did it myself. Sunman Dearborn will loose $457,388 in state funding over the next two years. Maybe those 9 faculty position cuts are really necessary. Maybe not! Sunman Dearborn will be raising an additional $1,473,891 in property taxes over the next two years. According to administration, the state is forcing them to do it.
Sunman Dearborn wants to be “average.” It should be noted that this increase in local tax levy likely keeps Local Property Tax Levy Per Average Daily Membership $438 less than state average. But, Sunman Dearborn will also likely receive $159 less than state average State Support Per A. D. M.
Over two years, South Dearborn will lose $262,524 in State Support. Yet they will still receive more than state average in State Support Per A. D. M. Using current figures from South Dearborn’s Statistical profile, I estimate State Support at $4,225 per Average Daily Membership. This is $373 above state average. South Dearborn will raise another $524,654 in property taxes. This still leaves the locals paying far less per A.D.M. at $2960 than the state average of $3970.
The truly terrifying fact is we don’t know what will happen to debt service and capital project tax rates. These increases will be blamed on the state. But it should be noted, both school corporations borrowed amounts exceeding $35 million for building projects on their secondary campuses.
Extracting information from City Securities Final Pricing Wire, I determined the annual interest on South Dearborn’s project to be over $1.7 million dollars. The first bond of $170,000 does not
Mature until July 15, 2007.
These bonds were issued after South Dearborn borrowed 8 Million for operating expenses due to slow collection of property taxes. These bonds were issued after the state cut transportation funding. These bonds were issued despite the fact that the State was in a fiscal mess and had delayed support payments to the schools numerous times. These bonds were issued after many were demanding the state put it’s financial house in order. The only solution to “state budget woes” is increased taxes or reduced spending. The writing was on the wall, but no one on The Board or in the Central Office read it.
Standard and Poor has a new website called SchoolMatters. The site provides detailed financial data on all public schools. The latest data available is 2002. In that year South Dearborn was paying $300 per student in interest payments. Total Debt Payments per student were $694 or 10.9% of expenditures. South Dearborn’s debt was nearly four times the state average. That is more debt than 96.8% of all Indiana Schools. And, Sunman Dearborn had more debt than 90.5 % of all Indiana Schools.
Other spending data can be found on IDEANET. The three-year average spending per student at Sunman Dearborn was $8,260. Teacher Salary per student is $2,563. The other $5,697 is spent on administration and overhead. Only 31% of that money is spent on the teacher. This is unsatisfactory when you consider Sunman Dearborn teachers rank 13th in average teacher salary.
The three year average spending per student at South Dearborn was $8,347. Teacher Salary per student is $2,779. The other $5,568 is spent elsewhere. Only 33% of South Dearborn’s spending goes to Teacher Salaries. With less than a third of education spending going to teachers, perhaps cutting administration would be more appropriate than cutting faculty.
Karen Loveland
About the Author:
Karen earned a BS in Business Administration with a Major in Finance from Brigham Young University. Karen has seven children in South Dearborn Schools.
In April, blaming state funding cuts, Sunman Dearborn announced the elimination of five full time and four part time faculty positions. In May, the administration awarded nearly $79,000 in administrative salary increases. Sunman Dearborn did cut one administrator and total administrative costs will be less. All things considered, is this the time to give administrators raises?
The justification for these raises was bringing salaries to state averages. The current salary for the Superintendent is $103,416. If this is below state average, Indiana is paying it’s administrators much more than most states. The 2004-2005 Occupational Outlook Handbook lists the average Salary for Directors, managers, coordinators, and supervisors, finance and business personnel in 2002-2003 at $81,451. Indiana school administrators must have had huge cost of living adjustments over the last two years. Principals earned an average of $75,291-$86,452 and Assistant Principals earned an average of $62,230-$70,874. (See Page 35 of the OOH)
Sadly, Sunman Dearborn could replace two of their retiring teachers with new teachers and spend less than what administrative raises will cost.
Together, Sunman Dearborn and South Dearborn Superintendents brought our next bit of bad news. Our property taxes will be going up. The state is “holding a gun to the heads of local administrators” said Book.
Unfortunately the math wasn’t completed for us. So I did it myself. Sunman Dearborn will loose $457,388 in state funding over the next two years. Maybe those 9 faculty position cuts are really necessary. Maybe not! Sunman Dearborn will be raising an additional $1,473,891 in property taxes over the next two years. According to administration, the state is forcing them to do it.
Sunman Dearborn wants to be “average.” It should be noted that this increase in local tax levy likely keeps Local Property Tax Levy Per Average Daily Membership $438 less than state average. But, Sunman Dearborn will also likely receive $159 less than state average State Support Per A. D. M.
Over two years, South Dearborn will lose $262,524 in State Support. Yet they will still receive more than state average in State Support Per A. D. M. Using current figures from South Dearborn’s Statistical profile, I estimate State Support at $4,225 per Average Daily Membership. This is $373 above state average. South Dearborn will raise another $524,654 in property taxes. This still leaves the locals paying far less per A.D.M. at $2960 than the state average of $3970.
The truly terrifying fact is we don’t know what will happen to debt service and capital project tax rates. These increases will be blamed on the state. But it should be noted, both school corporations borrowed amounts exceeding $35 million for building projects on their secondary campuses.
Extracting information from City Securities Final Pricing Wire, I determined the annual interest on South Dearborn’s project to be over $1.7 million dollars. The first bond of $170,000 does not
Mature until July 15, 2007.
These bonds were issued after South Dearborn borrowed 8 Million for operating expenses due to slow collection of property taxes. These bonds were issued after the state cut transportation funding. These bonds were issued despite the fact that the State was in a fiscal mess and had delayed support payments to the schools numerous times. These bonds were issued after many were demanding the state put it’s financial house in order. The only solution to “state budget woes” is increased taxes or reduced spending. The writing was on the wall, but no one on The Board or in the Central Office read it.
Standard and Poor has a new website called SchoolMatters. The site provides detailed financial data on all public schools. The latest data available is 2002. In that year South Dearborn was paying $300 per student in interest payments. Total Debt Payments per student were $694 or 10.9% of expenditures. South Dearborn’s debt was nearly four times the state average. That is more debt than 96.8% of all Indiana Schools. And, Sunman Dearborn had more debt than 90.5 % of all Indiana Schools.
Other spending data can be found on IDEANET. The three-year average spending per student at Sunman Dearborn was $8,260. Teacher Salary per student is $2,563. The other $5,697 is spent on administration and overhead. Only 31% of that money is spent on the teacher. This is unsatisfactory when you consider Sunman Dearborn teachers rank 13th in average teacher salary.
The three year average spending per student at South Dearborn was $8,347. Teacher Salary per student is $2,779. The other $5,568 is spent elsewhere. Only 33% of South Dearborn’s spending goes to Teacher Salaries. With less than a third of education spending going to teachers, perhaps cutting administration would be more appropriate than cutting faculty.
Karen Loveland
About the Author:
Karen earned a BS in Business Administration with a Major in Finance from Brigham Young University. Karen has seven children in South Dearborn Schools.
Wednesday, May 25, 2005
Commissioners Uncomfortably Clueless at 24 May 2005 Working Meeting
Commissioners Uncomfortably Clueless at 24 May 2005 Working Meeting
Present: Benning, Fox, Hughes
Also present: Stephanie Disbro- taking minutes for Cary Pickens, Bryan Messmore, Administrator, and Bob Ewbank, Att’y.
Don Townsend, the County Building Inspector, seemed determined to get his departmental fees updated, in spite of time restraints (30 minutes) on his presentation that would have further delayed progress for at least another month. Fox and Ewbank peppered him with questions regarding his fee structure and justifications of the dollar amounts. Townsend’s packet of information and calculations showing actual costs vs. charges stood up to the questioning.
Finishing his presentation, the commissioners seem to be on the same page to adopt the new schedule at their next regular meeting, pending a revised ordinance prepared by Ewbank to reflect those changes. Townsend stated that he wanted to be sure that the users of his dept. paid for their services and not the taxpayers.
(Ewbank was clear with commissioners that no voting was to occur at these working sessions.)
The highway department didn’t fare as well. Mike Davis with back up from Mark Seiler presented their annual report, which couldn’t be signed, because this was a working session.
They also presented a paving, chip seal, etc. list that Benning said they couldn’t vote on, so they also couldn’t present it to Council that night as they had previously planned. Benning stated that the widening of roads would have to wait. They could only do maintenance items and repairs as afforded. Benning seemed intent on covering 3 roads in her district, Martin, Grimsley, and Wilkerson. Fox and Hughes were more concerned with main roads, which Davis assured them were on the special projects list- a WISH LIST- for 5-6 years out. Councilman Dennis Kraus was observing the meeting and Benning turned to him at several points for back up. At one point she asked him about being late before with paving, sometimes as late as August.
Wilson Creek was mentioned- with the severe slip at the bottom- as being eligible for FEMA funds from flood damage. [NOTE: There are other slips on recently paved roads which are worsening, for example the hill just up from the bottom of Pribble Rd. Fox has also mentioned others in previous meetings.
Most residents of the county expect their roads to be safe. We have ventured into a time where that is questionable, even on the main collectors. Commissioners need to roll up their sleeves and figure out a way to get the job done. If it weren’t for the staff and workers in the highway dept. doing in-house work, nothing would be happening. Leadership from the commissioners is not happening. They are still talking about learning the basics and haven’t begun to intellectually venture into the realm of a 5-year plan. The county administrator with input from the Planning Dept. and Transportation Study is attempting to get this started, but with the low level of discussion from commissioners at this working session, it seems like a big leap to get them to that sort of forward thinking to accommodate the entire county’s growth.]
Criminal Justice Campus – it was the consensus of the commissioners that they would review the process by starting with the jail advisory committee. They plan to invite them to the June 14 Working Meeting to go over other alternatives other than building a campus. RQAW gave two lengthy presentations to Commissioners and to Council earlier this year to bring them all up to speed. Now it seems with all the money spent (and time) that none of these commissioners is familiar with the process and so they are going to see how they arrived at their decisions. Benning had noted that there was no commissioner on that committee. Ewbank stated that it was Karen Shell, but that she was no longer in office. [NOTE: Was Benning not paying attention during those updates during her first term?] Ewbank noted that it is more cost-effective for gov’t to lease rather than purchase…. [NOTE: If he was referring to a jail expansion, I’m having difficulty imagining being the landlord of that use!]
Christine Brauer Mueller
Lawrenceburg Township
Present: Benning, Fox, Hughes
Also present: Stephanie Disbro- taking minutes for Cary Pickens, Bryan Messmore, Administrator, and Bob Ewbank, Att’y.
Don Townsend, the County Building Inspector, seemed determined to get his departmental fees updated, in spite of time restraints (30 minutes) on his presentation that would have further delayed progress for at least another month. Fox and Ewbank peppered him with questions regarding his fee structure and justifications of the dollar amounts. Townsend’s packet of information and calculations showing actual costs vs. charges stood up to the questioning.
Finishing his presentation, the commissioners seem to be on the same page to adopt the new schedule at their next regular meeting, pending a revised ordinance prepared by Ewbank to reflect those changes. Townsend stated that he wanted to be sure that the users of his dept. paid for their services and not the taxpayers.
(Ewbank was clear with commissioners that no voting was to occur at these working sessions.)
The highway department didn’t fare as well. Mike Davis with back up from Mark Seiler presented their annual report, which couldn’t be signed, because this was a working session.
They also presented a paving, chip seal, etc. list that Benning said they couldn’t vote on, so they also couldn’t present it to Council that night as they had previously planned. Benning stated that the widening of roads would have to wait. They could only do maintenance items and repairs as afforded. Benning seemed intent on covering 3 roads in her district, Martin, Grimsley, and Wilkerson. Fox and Hughes were more concerned with main roads, which Davis assured them were on the special projects list- a WISH LIST- for 5-6 years out. Councilman Dennis Kraus was observing the meeting and Benning turned to him at several points for back up. At one point she asked him about being late before with paving, sometimes as late as August.
Wilson Creek was mentioned- with the severe slip at the bottom- as being eligible for FEMA funds from flood damage. [NOTE: There are other slips on recently paved roads which are worsening, for example the hill just up from the bottom of Pribble Rd. Fox has also mentioned others in previous meetings.
Most residents of the county expect their roads to be safe. We have ventured into a time where that is questionable, even on the main collectors. Commissioners need to roll up their sleeves and figure out a way to get the job done. If it weren’t for the staff and workers in the highway dept. doing in-house work, nothing would be happening. Leadership from the commissioners is not happening. They are still talking about learning the basics and haven’t begun to intellectually venture into the realm of a 5-year plan. The county administrator with input from the Planning Dept. and Transportation Study is attempting to get this started, but with the low level of discussion from commissioners at this working session, it seems like a big leap to get them to that sort of forward thinking to accommodate the entire county’s growth.]
Criminal Justice Campus – it was the consensus of the commissioners that they would review the process by starting with the jail advisory committee. They plan to invite them to the June 14 Working Meeting to go over other alternatives other than building a campus. RQAW gave two lengthy presentations to Commissioners and to Council earlier this year to bring them all up to speed. Now it seems with all the money spent (and time) that none of these commissioners is familiar with the process and so they are going to see how they arrived at their decisions. Benning had noted that there was no commissioner on that committee. Ewbank stated that it was Karen Shell, but that she was no longer in office. [NOTE: Was Benning not paying attention during those updates during her first term?] Ewbank noted that it is more cost-effective for gov’t to lease rather than purchase…. [NOTE: If he was referring to a jail expansion, I’m having difficulty imagining being the landlord of that use!]
Christine Brauer Mueller
Lawrenceburg Township
Tuesday, May 24, 2005
Plan Commission Says “Yes” to Everything at 23 May 2005 Meeting
23 May 2005 Dearborn County Plan Commission Meeting Notes
Plan Commission Says “Yes” to Everything at 23 May 2005 Meeting
It took 3 .75 hours, but in the end the Plan Commission approved everything on the agenda, including 3 months of minutes.
There were approximately thirty citizens in attendance and a full 9-member board present. Register Publications covered this meeting as well.
1.Harvest Ridge- the 198-lot Maxwell cluster development on Dogridge Rd. in Kelso Township (recently rezoned to R-DP) took nearly 1.75 hours with 8 neighbors presenting opposing statements, similar to those of the zone change hearings- (see notes on previous meetings.) Mike Hall motioned and Bob Laws 2nd to approve with the stipulations that the 2 intersections with SR 1 and SR 46 had to be assured prior to the subd’n being constructed, additional greenspace buffers would be added for surrounding property owners as much as could be within the lot setbacks, all staff comments would be accomplished, line fence installed all around the subdivision, a service drive would be used as staff recommended for 3 lots, and Maxwell would sign the 10-yr covenant with INDOT to install the light as needed on Sr1. Unanimously passed.
2. Evansgate Estates- a 4-lot subdivision on Dutch Hollow Rd on 2.22 acres owned by Ralph Evans passed with two Nays (Held and deMaynadier) Laws motioned and Kraus,Jr. 2nd to approve it with individual access for each lot. There was no public to comment on this.
3. Proposed changes to the zoning ordinance regarding cul-de-sacs and traffic impact studies both received favorable recommendations to the board of commissioners. There were text amendments, but only to clarify passages.
4. Fee schedule changes passed effective July 1st with Kraus, Hall, and Hughes voting Nay. The new schedule reduces the burden on small lot sub’ns. It increases costs on the larger ones, due to more oversight and staff costs to accommodate the applications.
Administrative:
June 8 at the Lawrenceburg Library from 7-9 PM - the meeting on the Fiscal Impact Study being considered for the county. All public officials and town and city mayors, chamber, school supt., and the DCEDI were invited. THIS MEETING SHOULD BE ATTENDED BY ANYONE INTERESTED IN THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP!!!!
Transportation Plan – which is a process the commissioners are undertaking – is starting. Bryan Messmore ( County Administrator) gave the timeline to Travis who shared it with the board. This fits with OKI’s roles as MPO as well and the Plan Commission will stay abreast of the progress as roads are reclassified . Of particular note are collector roads which may qualify for federal dollars.
Meeting adjourned at 10:45 PM
Christine Brauer Mueller
Lawrenceburg Township
Plan Commission Says “Yes” to Everything at 23 May 2005 Meeting
It took 3 .75 hours, but in the end the Plan Commission approved everything on the agenda, including 3 months of minutes.
There were approximately thirty citizens in attendance and a full 9-member board present. Register Publications covered this meeting as well.
1.Harvest Ridge- the 198-lot Maxwell cluster development on Dogridge Rd. in Kelso Township (recently rezoned to R-DP) took nearly 1.75 hours with 8 neighbors presenting opposing statements, similar to those of the zone change hearings- (see notes on previous meetings.) Mike Hall motioned and Bob Laws 2nd to approve with the stipulations that the 2 intersections with SR 1 and SR 46 had to be assured prior to the subd’n being constructed, additional greenspace buffers would be added for surrounding property owners as much as could be within the lot setbacks, all staff comments would be accomplished, line fence installed all around the subdivision, a service drive would be used as staff recommended for 3 lots, and Maxwell would sign the 10-yr covenant with INDOT to install the light as needed on Sr1. Unanimously passed.
2. Evansgate Estates- a 4-lot subdivision on Dutch Hollow Rd on 2.22 acres owned by Ralph Evans passed with two Nays (Held and deMaynadier) Laws motioned and Kraus,Jr. 2nd to approve it with individual access for each lot. There was no public to comment on this.
3. Proposed changes to the zoning ordinance regarding cul-de-sacs and traffic impact studies both received favorable recommendations to the board of commissioners. There were text amendments, but only to clarify passages.
4. Fee schedule changes passed effective July 1st with Kraus, Hall, and Hughes voting Nay. The new schedule reduces the burden on small lot sub’ns. It increases costs on the larger ones, due to more oversight and staff costs to accommodate the applications.
Administrative:
June 8 at the Lawrenceburg Library from 7-9 PM - the meeting on the Fiscal Impact Study being considered for the county. All public officials and town and city mayors, chamber, school supt., and the DCEDI were invited. THIS MEETING SHOULD BE ATTENDED BY ANYONE INTERESTED IN THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP!!!!
Transportation Plan – which is a process the commissioners are undertaking – is starting. Bryan Messmore ( County Administrator) gave the timeline to Travis who shared it with the board. This fits with OKI’s roles as MPO as well and the Plan Commission will stay abreast of the progress as roads are reclassified . Of particular note are collector roads which may qualify for federal dollars.
Meeting adjourned at 10:45 PM
Christine Brauer Mueller
Lawrenceburg Township
Tuesday, May 17, 2005
16 May 2005 Dearborn County Commissioners Meeting Notes
16 May 2005 Dearborn County Commissioners Meeting Notes
Present: Benning, President, Fox and Hughes.
Also Present: Pickens, Auditor, Messmore, Administrator, and Ewbank, Attorney.
This meeting was NOT videotaped.
1. Public hearing for Equestrian States Zone Map Amendment. Travis Miller, Planning Director also gave the overview and results of the Planning Commision hearing. He presented slides as well.
The developer was not present for this hearing. Seven residents spoke against the zone change citing issues primarily related to the road inadequacies and other services (fire, police, ems, and schools) not being ready to accept increased development yet. Citizens speaking were: Gloria Hoog, Marlene Hoog, Mary Lou Hilbert, Patrick Eckstein, Susan Eckstein, Cliff Eibeck, and Alan Breitenstein.
Increased taxes to support schools and services are already anticipated due to the other developments recently approved in the northern part of the county. Sewer capacity was also questioned. A video of severe road flooding was shown, as were pictures of road deficiencies. Subdivision conflicts and traffic issues with farm equipment and farming uses were named also. Breitenstein gave his comments regarding the duties of public officials to the people and listening to what the people want. He ended with a comment that property rights for the people who want to LIVE on the property should be as important as the rights of developers who want to SELL property.
Rick Fox stated that he was out there and saw the area and issues. Jeff Hughes asked if the road was slated for work soon? Mike Davis, Hwy Director, responded no- more like a long range plan. Travis Miller told them they had 90 days to act and this was the last meeting before that 990 days was up. Benning questioned using the Working session, but Ewbank told them decisions were not to be made at working sessions.
Miller noted that the applicant was not present. Benning asked WHO was supposed to notify the applicant? [NOTE: Incorrectly implying that Planning office was responsible).] Miller responded that applicants are responsible to find out. [NOTE: The residents and applicant are notified by the plan commission of their public hearing. Then the recommendation is certified to the commissioners. The commissioners would be responsible to notify residents and applicant IF THEY DECIDE THAT IS THEIR POLICY. No one notified residents, they had to check to see when the hearing was. The same is true for the applicant, who had requested to be heard at the 2nd meeting in May.]
Fox motioned to deny the zone change. Benning turned to Hughes and pointedly asked if there was a second. It died for lack of a second. Hughes was concerned about applicant absence. He motioned to table and Benning seconded it. They voted Aye and Fox voted Nay. Then they rescinded their tabling motion when they realized it couldn’t be tabled to any particular date as this was the last available meeting. Ewbank noted that it was effectively denied by them taking NO ACTION and letting the unfavorable stand for 90 days. That becomes a denial at the end of the 90 days. (Certification was March 4, so 90 days is the first week in June prior to the June 7 meeting.
[NOTE: Benning appeared to want to accept this proposal, but with no one speaking in favor, she had little to go on. Fox had researched the area and application and understood the implications. Hughes was concerned with being fair to developer- who was not present to state his case. Not all of them appear to trust the recommendation of the Plan Commission – and Benning didn’t seem informed. It was unclear just what she was basing her decision on.]
2. Laughery Creek Bridge- David Denman- NO Show
3. Claims and Minutes were signed.
4. Jennifer and James Mallett- citizens spoke about a drainage issue with the health dept. being called in on Bond Road. Mike Davis is going to check it out.
5. Bryan Messmore- County Administrator- presented the DCEDI (Economic Development Initiative) contract for signing stating that Ewbank had reviewed it. Lisa Lehner – att’y for DCEDI- had sent it. Benning stated she hadn’t seen it yet. Ewbank noted that the SBOA (Board of Accounts) typically has the right to inspect records of organizations, which get a certain amount of public money. This contract was written to change the terms to reflect the relationship as services provided to avoid the books being open to the public. They asked for $6250/month, which Benning noted was higher that the $25,000 they were using as approved from the Redevelopment Commission money. (Actually it’s $75,000 total and 3 x the amount she thinks they previously approved.)
NO ACTION was taken on this until it is researched further. Pickens also noted that it has to be approved at budget time by Council.
[NOTE: What’s with the DCEDI being afraid to have the public money the receive accounted for? One sure-fire way to lose public confidence in an organization is to close your books to public scrutiny.]
Messmore allowed Travis Miller to present the background to the 911 reimbursement to the county on their Phase 2 Cost Recovery to get cell phone compliance with 911 that Planning and Zoning had written the grant for. Fox and Hughes motioned. All Ayes. Benning signed the paperwork.
6. Bob Ewbank- Att’y- reiterated the info on tort claims and insurance from last meeting. He reviewed the Building Dept. code and stated that they SHOULD BE CHARGING FOR ELECTRICAL INSPECTIONS.
He also stated that he’d talked to the Public Access Counselor on the Commissioner’s Open Door violations and technical issues with their executive sessions. He wants to review all executive session materials to be in full compliance. He also stated that it’s easy to do the proper notifications with the forms he has downloaded.
7. Benning’s report included the Hospital Board’s recent elections: Rob.t Hoffmeier, Chair, Ron Denning, Vice Chair, Betty Bischoff- Sec’y, and John Stroup, Att’y.
She announced a Mosquito Workshop in Versailles, and the Relay for Life date was determined to be June 25th weekend. Working meetings start May 24th 5-7PM. After that they will be on the 2nd Tues of each month. She also plans to attend the legislative luncheon sponsored by Ewbank’s firm at the Applewood on Wednesday.
Travis Miller announced the Land Workshop with FSG- Financial Solutions Group June 8 from 7-9 PM. Many officials have been invited as well. This will help determine the actual fiscal impact of each type of development in our county and is a precursor to determining the map for future land uses later this year. The meeting location will be announced- either at the Library or Tate St. Center.
Meeting adjourned 8:30 PM
Christine Brauer Mueller
Lawrenceburg Township
Present: Benning, President, Fox and Hughes.
Also Present: Pickens, Auditor, Messmore, Administrator, and Ewbank, Attorney.
This meeting was NOT videotaped.
1. Public hearing for Equestrian States Zone Map Amendment. Travis Miller, Planning Director also gave the overview and results of the Planning Commision hearing. He presented slides as well.
The developer was not present for this hearing. Seven residents spoke against the zone change citing issues primarily related to the road inadequacies and other services (fire, police, ems, and schools) not being ready to accept increased development yet. Citizens speaking were: Gloria Hoog, Marlene Hoog, Mary Lou Hilbert, Patrick Eckstein, Susan Eckstein, Cliff Eibeck, and Alan Breitenstein.
Increased taxes to support schools and services are already anticipated due to the other developments recently approved in the northern part of the county. Sewer capacity was also questioned. A video of severe road flooding was shown, as were pictures of road deficiencies. Subdivision conflicts and traffic issues with farm equipment and farming uses were named also. Breitenstein gave his comments regarding the duties of public officials to the people and listening to what the people want. He ended with a comment that property rights for the people who want to LIVE on the property should be as important as the rights of developers who want to SELL property.
Rick Fox stated that he was out there and saw the area and issues. Jeff Hughes asked if the road was slated for work soon? Mike Davis, Hwy Director, responded no- more like a long range plan. Travis Miller told them they had 90 days to act and this was the last meeting before that 990 days was up. Benning questioned using the Working session, but Ewbank told them decisions were not to be made at working sessions.
Miller noted that the applicant was not present. Benning asked WHO was supposed to notify the applicant? [NOTE: Incorrectly implying that Planning office was responsible).] Miller responded that applicants are responsible to find out. [NOTE: The residents and applicant are notified by the plan commission of their public hearing. Then the recommendation is certified to the commissioners. The commissioners would be responsible to notify residents and applicant IF THEY DECIDE THAT IS THEIR POLICY. No one notified residents, they had to check to see when the hearing was. The same is true for the applicant, who had requested to be heard at the 2nd meeting in May.]
Fox motioned to deny the zone change. Benning turned to Hughes and pointedly asked if there was a second. It died for lack of a second. Hughes was concerned about applicant absence. He motioned to table and Benning seconded it. They voted Aye and Fox voted Nay. Then they rescinded their tabling motion when they realized it couldn’t be tabled to any particular date as this was the last available meeting. Ewbank noted that it was effectively denied by them taking NO ACTION and letting the unfavorable stand for 90 days. That becomes a denial at the end of the 90 days. (Certification was March 4, so 90 days is the first week in June prior to the June 7 meeting.
[NOTE: Benning appeared to want to accept this proposal, but with no one speaking in favor, she had little to go on. Fox had researched the area and application and understood the implications. Hughes was concerned with being fair to developer- who was not present to state his case. Not all of them appear to trust the recommendation of the Plan Commission – and Benning didn’t seem informed. It was unclear just what she was basing her decision on.]
2. Laughery Creek Bridge- David Denman- NO Show
3. Claims and Minutes were signed.
4. Jennifer and James Mallett- citizens spoke about a drainage issue with the health dept. being called in on Bond Road. Mike Davis is going to check it out.
5. Bryan Messmore- County Administrator- presented the DCEDI (Economic Development Initiative) contract for signing stating that Ewbank had reviewed it. Lisa Lehner – att’y for DCEDI- had sent it. Benning stated she hadn’t seen it yet. Ewbank noted that the SBOA (Board of Accounts) typically has the right to inspect records of organizations, which get a certain amount of public money. This contract was written to change the terms to reflect the relationship as services provided to avoid the books being open to the public. They asked for $6250/month, which Benning noted was higher that the $25,000 they were using as approved from the Redevelopment Commission money. (Actually it’s $75,000 total and 3 x the amount she thinks they previously approved.)
NO ACTION was taken on this until it is researched further. Pickens also noted that it has to be approved at budget time by Council.
[NOTE: What’s with the DCEDI being afraid to have the public money the receive accounted for? One sure-fire way to lose public confidence in an organization is to close your books to public scrutiny.]
Messmore allowed Travis Miller to present the background to the 911 reimbursement to the county on their Phase 2 Cost Recovery to get cell phone compliance with 911 that Planning and Zoning had written the grant for. Fox and Hughes motioned. All Ayes. Benning signed the paperwork.
6. Bob Ewbank- Att’y- reiterated the info on tort claims and insurance from last meeting. He reviewed the Building Dept. code and stated that they SHOULD BE CHARGING FOR ELECTRICAL INSPECTIONS.
He also stated that he’d talked to the Public Access Counselor on the Commissioner’s Open Door violations and technical issues with their executive sessions. He wants to review all executive session materials to be in full compliance. He also stated that it’s easy to do the proper notifications with the forms he has downloaded.
7. Benning’s report included the Hospital Board’s recent elections: Rob.t Hoffmeier, Chair, Ron Denning, Vice Chair, Betty Bischoff- Sec’y, and John Stroup, Att’y.
She announced a Mosquito Workshop in Versailles, and the Relay for Life date was determined to be June 25th weekend. Working meetings start May 24th 5-7PM. After that they will be on the 2nd Tues of each month. She also plans to attend the legislative luncheon sponsored by Ewbank’s firm at the Applewood on Wednesday.
Travis Miller announced the Land Workshop with FSG- Financial Solutions Group June 8 from 7-9 PM. Many officials have been invited as well. This will help determine the actual fiscal impact of each type of development in our county and is a precursor to determining the map for future land uses later this year. The meeting location will be announced- either at the Library or Tate St. Center.
Meeting adjourned 8:30 PM
Christine Brauer Mueller
Lawrenceburg Township
Wednesday, May 04, 2005
3 May 2005 Dearborn County Commissioner Meeting Notes
3 May 2005 Dearborn County Commissioner Meeting NotesPresent: Present: Vera Benning, President, Jeff Hughes, and Rick Fox.
Also Present: Cary Pickens, Auditor, Bryan Messmore, County Adm., and Bob Ewbank, Attorney.
The agenda for this meeting includes a statement: “During the Public Hearing, public comments are welcomed.”
This meeting was videotaped, the same as all previous meetings since January 2005.
1. Public hearing for Zone change from Ag- to B-1 for 2.396 acres of Lonnie Steele’s property on Mt. Pleasant Rd (part of THE FARM GOLF COURSE) for a restaurant facility. Travis Miller gave a PowerPoint presentation of the proceedings at the Plan Commission, where this was given a favorable recommendation with one nay vote. He noted that the sewer access is currently under discussion, but has not been achieved yet. He noted also that the sewage is currently in a holding tank and pumped periodically to remove it.
NO PUBLIC came to speak on this.
Fox motioned and Hughes 2nd to approve the zone change to B-1 stating that it met the 5 criteria for a zone change. [NOTE: They did not discuss or state how this met the 5 criteria!] Motion passed.
Travis also presented the new FEMA rules for article 8 in the zoning ordinance for commissioners’ approval. It also had a favorable from the plan commission. This replacement for the old section 8 in the ordinance book contains more glossary words (defined) and also a newer role for the BZA in floodplain decisions. Fox motioned and Hughes 2nd to approve the new floodplain rules. Passed.
Travis Miller also had the commissioners sign off on the written commitments for Maxwell’s development on DogRidge Rd.
2. Bonnie Cantwell of YOUR IMAGE PRODUCTIONS, who has been doing the video taping of the commissioners meeting, presented her plan to be paid $75/meeting to produce an unedited digital copy of the meetings for public record. Copies would be indexed to the agenda. She stated it could be a legal aid as “no one can dispute what the camera sees or hears.” Pickens stated that it couldn’t be funded till next year. Fox stated that the bottom line is that we don’t have the money. Hughes motioned to table this to look into it further. Fox 2nd. Tabled. [NOTE: This seems to be a duplication of services. What would be the official record- the minutes or the video?]
3. Mike Davis- Transportation Director- gave a report. He is trying to get a uniform project form to give a one-page snapshot of the pros and cons of various projects proposed.
8 trucks were bought several years ago all at the same time. They have over 250,000 miles on them and will need to be replaced. Davis wants to replace three currently. Fox stated that a truck replacement schedule was needed. Pickens stated that it needed to be brought in at budget time- no mid-year requests.
Fox wants Davis to get bids (he probably means quotes, as he doesn’t want to be bound to buy based on them) for budget time so they can make a formal request. Messmore stressed that these lines of communication needed to be open, not done behind the scene.
Davis stated there were 4-5 roads set for paving this summer, also several on the chip seal program. He wanted to widen Sawdon Ridge and Mt. Pleasant by 2 ft. Davis talked to a Ripley Cty. Company that widens roads- about 3 mi/day. They rest could be done in-house and cheaper.
Benning wanted to know if money was available. Messmore stated they looked, Pickens wasn’t sure. He also noted that projects go to Council for approval first for money to be released. Fox wanted to look at the traffic study and plan where the dollars should go. Benning noted that Wilkerson, Grimsley, and Ache have been on the list already. Fox needed exact figures of available funds and also the ones previously funded. Messmore and Pickens noted there were problems finding the funds. No real decision on this…..
Davis talked about the light at Schuman and SR1 that Maxwell is to pay for. Messmore noted several criteria to go into getting INDOT to agree. One is the peak traffic count, also the number of accidents (34 since 2003) and annual maintenance for the county of $1000 for the light plus replacement costs of about $10,000. Again- no decision.
4. Jeff Talkers- The Survey Co. – gave an update on Whites Hill. Project to be completed in 4-5 weeks with clean up and rip-wrap and guardrail. There was a change order presented for a culvert from 48” to 60-72” arched one with headwall of $67,000. Budgeted so far spent was $754,000. It would be longer than 5 weeks to open if culvert changed. They felt the 48” was inadequate.
The sewer pipe was upgraded from 8 to 10 “ and St. Leon is to pay the difference. There was no decision on the change order.
5. Dave Lykins Woliung Rd- No Show
6.Don Townsend- Building Inspector- asked for a complete revamp of the fee schedule. $25 for inspections is not enough- he says actual costs are $45. Taxpayers have been subsidizing part of the costs of inspections. He wants to put the costs where they belong- on the use- i.e. the builders and developers. [NOTE: Actually, this cost will go to the homeowner- the builder/developer is a pass-thru.]He stated that since 1986- 2228 electrical inspections were done for free due to a misinterpretation of the ordinance. Ewbank told him to request an interpretation in writing on that law and he will give it to him ASAP. He felt that would fix things. Townsend to write the letter. (It appears this means Ewbank probably charges the building dept. for his services.)Commissioners want to think about it and have a working session on 2nd Tues of each month from 5-7 PM. (starting in June) They plan to go over this schedule then and decide it at the next REGULAR meeting after that.
7. Jeff Smith- Weights and Measures- left early- but gave his written annual 2004 report to Messmore for the commissioners.
8. Migrant Housing through Heart House and Craig Beckley to be located and owned by Beiersdorfer’s Orchards. Bill Beiersdorfer stated that they wanted to keep farming for the children to take over. They have had a trailer to house migrants for 30 years.
Beckley stated that there is NO EXPENSE TO THE COUNTY- that the county is just a pass though, because they have to be sponsored by a local branch of gov’t.
This structure will replace the existing structure- similar to the request 3 years ago in 2002 that was turned down by commissioners. Beiersdorfer’s put up a 10% match; Heart House does all the paperwork. The original request was for $200-250,000 building. Beiersdorfers put up 20-25,000. In 10 years the building becomes theirs. Taxpayers foot the other 90%. [Note: There is a built in conflict of interest- Heart House gets paid administrative fees as a percent of this grant- so it is to their advantage to get the maximum amount of dollars for the building.]
Because the rules were just published Friday, Beckley had nothing firm to show them. The application is due June 20. Building is to be 2 units with a central storage and washers/driers in middle. Each unit is 3 bedrooms, LR, DR, kitchen, and bathrooms.
It can only be used for migrant housing or they have to pay state back. [Note: What about after 10 years is up? Can they rent it out to others then?]
Beiersdorfer’s pay increased taxes on this building also.
Beckley has to do environmental review and historical review, but can’t do it until commissioners make him their agent. [Note: This is the usual method- bring it in last minute- try to rush things so the details are not known- and then get an approval because we might lose the chance to get the funds.]
Commissioners seemed reluctant to sign off on this until they saw all the paperwork. Fox motioned and Hughes 2nd to allow Heart House (Beckley) to be the agent for the county to do the application only. They will not give final approval until the paperwork is in front of them for review.
[Note: The issue FOR THE COMMISSIONERS 3 years ago had several points. One was public money being spent to build housing on private land to become privately owned. If the county owned the building, it might be different. Also, there were concerns about health care for the migrants and what that would cost the county, if we began to encourage this sort of enterprise. Also, was it fair to give this to one farmer and not to others? Lastly, there were concerns about migrants being paid so little that they couldn’t afford any housing. The commissioners at that time did not seem to give any credence to bigoted comments about migrants in general. The commissioners and the public had no issue with Beiersdorfer’s Orchard- in fact they seemed supportive of them as a long time farming family, in general.]
9. Cary Pickens- Auditor- had commissioners sign off on the annual Congressional School Fund which is a 100 year old (or so) – fund that exists- mostly on paper.
Pickens updated them on the Riverboat Revenue issues (thanks to the local reps and Nugent and Bischoff) and stated that we will probably lose the hold harmless funds ($4-5 million) that were used to replace the head tax when we went to dockside gaming. He stressed that we have to come up with a plan for 2 years from now in order to keep the money, because they will be asking for it again. Lawrenceburg also has to. He also stated that we have to account for our expenditures, but the state can’t seem to account for what they did with their $2.5 billion share.
10. Bryan Messmore- Administrator- set up the working session for 2nd Tues of month form 5-7PM- a public meeting.
He also noted some email and webpage issues with computers lately.
11. Bob Ewbank, Att’y- Notified commissioners of pending litigations and insurance company notifications. He also noted there is no decision yet on the Larry Smith/Richard Schmidt lawsuit over the White’s Hill development that was rezoned.
He is reviewing the status of all performance bonds.
He is also fairly certain the state will allow the deadline for taxes to go from Apr20- July 5 with no penalty.
12. Hughes had nothing to report. Fox updated them on Collier Ridge slip repair. Benning invited commissioners to sewer board meeting to help get them some funding.
She also stated that we need to hire an engineer that is a resident of IN and PE certified in IN. Fox noted that we could pay for it in fees that have gone to consultants. Cary noted that it’s already in the budget. [Note: If a PE can’t be obtained at this salary or for other reasons, commissioners might want to consider hiring a younger candidate and giving him/her the experience to qualify for the P.E. ultimately. The computer literacy of a younger candidate may also be an asset to the efficiency of the highway dept., which is currently using a manual system to track performance bonds etc. Imagine what might be possible if the highway dept. took a "hi-tech" step up in performance. It wouldn’t hurt to hire an engineering intern for that dept. also.]
Meeting adjourned at 8:30 PM
Christine Brauer Mueller
Lawrenceburg Township
Also Present: Cary Pickens, Auditor, Bryan Messmore, County Adm., and Bob Ewbank, Attorney.
The agenda for this meeting includes a statement: “During the Public Hearing, public comments are welcomed.”
This meeting was videotaped, the same as all previous meetings since January 2005.
1. Public hearing for Zone change from Ag- to B-1 for 2.396 acres of Lonnie Steele’s property on Mt. Pleasant Rd (part of THE FARM GOLF COURSE) for a restaurant facility. Travis Miller gave a PowerPoint presentation of the proceedings at the Plan Commission, where this was given a favorable recommendation with one nay vote. He noted that the sewer access is currently under discussion, but has not been achieved yet. He noted also that the sewage is currently in a holding tank and pumped periodically to remove it.
NO PUBLIC came to speak on this.
Fox motioned and Hughes 2nd to approve the zone change to B-1 stating that it met the 5 criteria for a zone change. [NOTE: They did not discuss or state how this met the 5 criteria!] Motion passed.
Travis also presented the new FEMA rules for article 8 in the zoning ordinance for commissioners’ approval. It also had a favorable from the plan commission. This replacement for the old section 8 in the ordinance book contains more glossary words (defined) and also a newer role for the BZA in floodplain decisions. Fox motioned and Hughes 2nd to approve the new floodplain rules. Passed.
Travis Miller also had the commissioners sign off on the written commitments for Maxwell’s development on DogRidge Rd.
2. Bonnie Cantwell of YOUR IMAGE PRODUCTIONS, who has been doing the video taping of the commissioners meeting, presented her plan to be paid $75/meeting to produce an unedited digital copy of the meetings for public record. Copies would be indexed to the agenda. She stated it could be a legal aid as “no one can dispute what the camera sees or hears.” Pickens stated that it couldn’t be funded till next year. Fox stated that the bottom line is that we don’t have the money. Hughes motioned to table this to look into it further. Fox 2nd. Tabled. [NOTE: This seems to be a duplication of services. What would be the official record- the minutes or the video?]
3. Mike Davis- Transportation Director- gave a report. He is trying to get a uniform project form to give a one-page snapshot of the pros and cons of various projects proposed.
8 trucks were bought several years ago all at the same time. They have over 250,000 miles on them and will need to be replaced. Davis wants to replace three currently. Fox stated that a truck replacement schedule was needed. Pickens stated that it needed to be brought in at budget time- no mid-year requests.
Fox wants Davis to get bids (he probably means quotes, as he doesn’t want to be bound to buy based on them) for budget time so they can make a formal request. Messmore stressed that these lines of communication needed to be open, not done behind the scene.
Davis stated there were 4-5 roads set for paving this summer, also several on the chip seal program. He wanted to widen Sawdon Ridge and Mt. Pleasant by 2 ft. Davis talked to a Ripley Cty. Company that widens roads- about 3 mi/day. They rest could be done in-house and cheaper.
Benning wanted to know if money was available. Messmore stated they looked, Pickens wasn’t sure. He also noted that projects go to Council for approval first for money to be released. Fox wanted to look at the traffic study and plan where the dollars should go. Benning noted that Wilkerson, Grimsley, and Ache have been on the list already. Fox needed exact figures of available funds and also the ones previously funded. Messmore and Pickens noted there were problems finding the funds. No real decision on this…..
Davis talked about the light at Schuman and SR1 that Maxwell is to pay for. Messmore noted several criteria to go into getting INDOT to agree. One is the peak traffic count, also the number of accidents (34 since 2003) and annual maintenance for the county of $1000 for the light plus replacement costs of about $10,000. Again- no decision.
4. Jeff Talkers- The Survey Co. – gave an update on Whites Hill. Project to be completed in 4-5 weeks with clean up and rip-wrap and guardrail. There was a change order presented for a culvert from 48” to 60-72” arched one with headwall of $67,000. Budgeted so far spent was $754,000. It would be longer than 5 weeks to open if culvert changed. They felt the 48” was inadequate.
The sewer pipe was upgraded from 8 to 10 “ and St. Leon is to pay the difference. There was no decision on the change order.
5. Dave Lykins Woliung Rd- No Show
6.Don Townsend- Building Inspector- asked for a complete revamp of the fee schedule. $25 for inspections is not enough- he says actual costs are $45. Taxpayers have been subsidizing part of the costs of inspections. He wants to put the costs where they belong- on the use- i.e. the builders and developers. [NOTE: Actually, this cost will go to the homeowner- the builder/developer is a pass-thru.]He stated that since 1986- 2228 electrical inspections were done for free due to a misinterpretation of the ordinance. Ewbank told him to request an interpretation in writing on that law and he will give it to him ASAP. He felt that would fix things. Townsend to write the letter. (It appears this means Ewbank probably charges the building dept. for his services.)Commissioners want to think about it and have a working session on 2nd Tues of each month from 5-7 PM. (starting in June) They plan to go over this schedule then and decide it at the next REGULAR meeting after that.
7. Jeff Smith- Weights and Measures- left early- but gave his written annual 2004 report to Messmore for the commissioners.
8. Migrant Housing through Heart House and Craig Beckley to be located and owned by Beiersdorfer’s Orchards. Bill Beiersdorfer stated that they wanted to keep farming for the children to take over. They have had a trailer to house migrants for 30 years.
Beckley stated that there is NO EXPENSE TO THE COUNTY- that the county is just a pass though, because they have to be sponsored by a local branch of gov’t.
This structure will replace the existing structure- similar to the request 3 years ago in 2002 that was turned down by commissioners. Beiersdorfer’s put up a 10% match; Heart House does all the paperwork. The original request was for $200-250,000 building. Beiersdorfers put up 20-25,000. In 10 years the building becomes theirs. Taxpayers foot the other 90%. [Note: There is a built in conflict of interest- Heart House gets paid administrative fees as a percent of this grant- so it is to their advantage to get the maximum amount of dollars for the building.]
Because the rules were just published Friday, Beckley had nothing firm to show them. The application is due June 20. Building is to be 2 units with a central storage and washers/driers in middle. Each unit is 3 bedrooms, LR, DR, kitchen, and bathrooms.
It can only be used for migrant housing or they have to pay state back. [Note: What about after 10 years is up? Can they rent it out to others then?]
Beiersdorfer’s pay increased taxes on this building also.
Beckley has to do environmental review and historical review, but can’t do it until commissioners make him their agent. [Note: This is the usual method- bring it in last minute- try to rush things so the details are not known- and then get an approval because we might lose the chance to get the funds.]
Commissioners seemed reluctant to sign off on this until they saw all the paperwork. Fox motioned and Hughes 2nd to allow Heart House (Beckley) to be the agent for the county to do the application only. They will not give final approval until the paperwork is in front of them for review.
[Note: The issue FOR THE COMMISSIONERS 3 years ago had several points. One was public money being spent to build housing on private land to become privately owned. If the county owned the building, it might be different. Also, there were concerns about health care for the migrants and what that would cost the county, if we began to encourage this sort of enterprise. Also, was it fair to give this to one farmer and not to others? Lastly, there were concerns about migrants being paid so little that they couldn’t afford any housing. The commissioners at that time did not seem to give any credence to bigoted comments about migrants in general. The commissioners and the public had no issue with Beiersdorfer’s Orchard- in fact they seemed supportive of them as a long time farming family, in general.]
9. Cary Pickens- Auditor- had commissioners sign off on the annual Congressional School Fund which is a 100 year old (or so) – fund that exists- mostly on paper.
Pickens updated them on the Riverboat Revenue issues (thanks to the local reps and Nugent and Bischoff) and stated that we will probably lose the hold harmless funds ($4-5 million) that were used to replace the head tax when we went to dockside gaming. He stressed that we have to come up with a plan for 2 years from now in order to keep the money, because they will be asking for it again. Lawrenceburg also has to. He also stated that we have to account for our expenditures, but the state can’t seem to account for what they did with their $2.5 billion share.
10. Bryan Messmore- Administrator- set up the working session for 2nd Tues of month form 5-7PM- a public meeting.
He also noted some email and webpage issues with computers lately.
11. Bob Ewbank, Att’y- Notified commissioners of pending litigations and insurance company notifications. He also noted there is no decision yet on the Larry Smith/Richard Schmidt lawsuit over the White’s Hill development that was rezoned.
He is reviewing the status of all performance bonds.
He is also fairly certain the state will allow the deadline for taxes to go from Apr20- July 5 with no penalty.
12. Hughes had nothing to report. Fox updated them on Collier Ridge slip repair. Benning invited commissioners to sewer board meeting to help get them some funding.
She also stated that we need to hire an engineer that is a resident of IN and PE certified in IN. Fox noted that we could pay for it in fees that have gone to consultants. Cary noted that it’s already in the budget. [Note: If a PE can’t be obtained at this salary or for other reasons, commissioners might want to consider hiring a younger candidate and giving him/her the experience to qualify for the P.E. ultimately. The computer literacy of a younger candidate may also be an asset to the efficiency of the highway dept., which is currently using a manual system to track performance bonds etc. Imagine what might be possible if the highway dept. took a "hi-tech" step up in performance. It wouldn’t hurt to hire an engineering intern for that dept. also.]
Meeting adjourned at 8:30 PM
Christine Brauer Mueller
Lawrenceburg Township
Tuesday, April 26, 2005
25 April 2005 Dearborn County Plan Commission Meeting Notes
25 April 2005 Dearborn County Plan Commission Meeting Notes
Present: Present: Mark Mitter, Chairman, Jeff Hughes, Patrick de Maynadier, Tarry Feiss, Dennis Kraus, Jr., Jane Ohlmansiek, Robert Laws, and Mike Hall. Absent: Nick Held and Arnie McGill, Att’y
Also present: Travis Miller, Planning Director, and Mark McCormack, Enforcement Officer.
Meeting started late at 7:15 PM.
1. Ag Section Adjoining Highway Interchange on SR1 between Dover and St. Leon Given Favorable Recommendation for Zone Change.
Zone change from A to H-1 (Highway Interchange) for 1.53 acres on SR1 in Kelso Township for a small engine shop. Owner- Anthony Bischoff. Surveyor presenting: Dennis Kraus, Sr.
Dennis Kraus, Jr, and Tarry Feiss stepped down from the board due to conflict of interest on this item.
No public comment. This item was evaluated as a worse case scenario, because no plans for the engine shop were submitted. These will be done at Primary approval per the applicant. Zone change was seen as being compatible with the master plan due to other structures of similar character in the vicinity, adequate infrastructure, encouragement of mixed uses in this area, and encouragement of new business for increased tax base.
Hall motioned and de Maynadier 2nd to pass a Favorable recommendation to the commissioners for a zone change to H-1.
2. Second item removed from agenda.
Administrative:
1. Cul de sacs were further discussed and will be readvertised for a decision at May meeting. Final conclusion is to use the definition as staff recommended.
[NOTE: I left the meeting at this point- the rest of these notes are from info given by the Planning Office.]
2. Traffic Impact Study will be modified to reflect a change that a developer may finance their own study, but they also have to finance the engineering consultant that the county hires to evaluate their study. Pre-ap process for developers will include a need, scope, schedule, and fee for the developer to sign off on- regardless of which route the developer chooses to pursue regarding the study.
This will be readvertised for May meeting for decision.
3. Fee schedule changes show increases across the board. Final decision at May meeting to be effective June 1st. There will be some modification to clear up discrepancies in fees for minor sub’n that require major sub’n review because of a variance, etc.
4. Fiscal model - $500 was approved from master plan budget for Financial services Group of Bloomington to do a workshop possibly in May (at working session May 18th).
Working sessions are typically on the 3rd Wed of each month. If anyone plans to attend- they should call the Planning Office to verify this agenda and date.
Christine Brauer Mueller
Lawrenceburg Township
Present: Present: Mark Mitter, Chairman, Jeff Hughes, Patrick de Maynadier, Tarry Feiss, Dennis Kraus, Jr., Jane Ohlmansiek, Robert Laws, and Mike Hall. Absent: Nick Held and Arnie McGill, Att’y
Also present: Travis Miller, Planning Director, and Mark McCormack, Enforcement Officer.
Meeting started late at 7:15 PM.
1. Ag Section Adjoining Highway Interchange on SR1 between Dover and St. Leon Given Favorable Recommendation for Zone Change.
Zone change from A to H-1 (Highway Interchange) for 1.53 acres on SR1 in Kelso Township for a small engine shop. Owner- Anthony Bischoff. Surveyor presenting: Dennis Kraus, Sr.
Dennis Kraus, Jr, and Tarry Feiss stepped down from the board due to conflict of interest on this item.
No public comment. This item was evaluated as a worse case scenario, because no plans for the engine shop were submitted. These will be done at Primary approval per the applicant. Zone change was seen as being compatible with the master plan due to other structures of similar character in the vicinity, adequate infrastructure, encouragement of mixed uses in this area, and encouragement of new business for increased tax base.
Hall motioned and de Maynadier 2nd to pass a Favorable recommendation to the commissioners for a zone change to H-1.
2. Second item removed from agenda.
Administrative:
1. Cul de sacs were further discussed and will be readvertised for a decision at May meeting. Final conclusion is to use the definition as staff recommended.
[NOTE: I left the meeting at this point- the rest of these notes are from info given by the Planning Office.]
2. Traffic Impact Study will be modified to reflect a change that a developer may finance their own study, but they also have to finance the engineering consultant that the county hires to evaluate their study. Pre-ap process for developers will include a need, scope, schedule, and fee for the developer to sign off on- regardless of which route the developer chooses to pursue regarding the study.
This will be readvertised for May meeting for decision.
3. Fee schedule changes show increases across the board. Final decision at May meeting to be effective June 1st. There will be some modification to clear up discrepancies in fees for minor sub’n that require major sub’n review because of a variance, etc.
4. Fiscal model - $500 was approved from master plan budget for Financial services Group of Bloomington to do a workshop possibly in May (at working session May 18th).
Working sessions are typically on the 3rd Wed of each month. If anyone plans to attend- they should call the Planning Office to verify this agenda and date.
Christine Brauer Mueller
Lawrenceburg Township
Friday, April 22, 2005
20 April 2005 Dearborn County Plan Commission Working Meeting Roadway Standards
20 April 2005 Dearborn County Plan Commission Working Meeting Roadway Standards
Present: Mark Mitter, Chairman, Jeff Hughes, Patrick deMaynadier, Robert Laws, Nick
Held, Jane Ohlmansiek, Mike Hall, and Tarry Feiss.
Also Present: Travis Miller, Planning Director, and Mark McCormack, Enforcement Officer
Public present: Kathy Scott, Mark Neff, Archie Crouch, Nicole Daily, Kim Elam, Tom Kent, Jim Kinnett, Chris Mueller.
The Plan Commission reviewed the current street classifications and
design guidelines. An updated map of collector and arterial street classifications was presented for possible future adoption to become the basis for a County
Thoroughfare Plan.
Travis Miller presented a flow chart and timeline for adoption of a future land use map to be appended to the Master Plan. He emphasized that future land use designation decisions must be coordinated with roadway improvement planning. This process will continue across the summer with a draft plan to be presented to the public for their input in the fall of 2005.
[NOTE: This Future Land Use Map and the above Thoroughfare Plan are an important part of the future plans for the county- public involvement is crucial to this being appropriately adopted to reflect the desires of the entire county. Watch the papers and check with the plan commission site at http://www.dearborncounty.org/planning/ for meetings on these topics.]
Subdivision Control Ordinance Appendix C – Geometric Design Guidelinesfor all roadway classifications and categories were reviewed and the criteria
used to determine the classification of roadways were discussed. (see also Section 24 of Zoning Ordinance)
Staff will prepare a text amendment of the Subdivision Control Ordinance Appendix C including a second design guideline without parking for Curb and Gutter streets for public hearing and final recommendation.
Concerns regarding a conflict between the required driveway spacing
requirements for arterial and collector roads being greater than the required lot
frontage within the Agriculture zone district. This will be addressed by potential text amendment(s) to remedy the lot frontage vs. driveway spacing conflict and present to Plan Commission for further review and discussion.
Eventually these recommend amendments will be added to the Comprehensive Plan so it will have an official Roadway Classification and Thoroughfare Plan.
Cul-de-sac Street
Staff proposed changes to Subdivision Control Ordinance Section 305-N and
Article 6 for review. Clarification suggested by Plan Commission. Staff will modify the definition text and the graphic diagram present revised recommendation to Plan
Commission for final recommendation.
Traffic Impact Study for Zone Changes and Development Proposals
Applicants were concerned with possible time delays in the review process if county approved firms were busy. Funding mechanisms will be defined – e.g. cash, bonding, letter of credit, escrow accounts, etc. Ownership of interest needs to be addressed. Applicant issues were discussed regarding the weight given to the consultants report. Issues regarding the conflict of interest when the applicant hires the consultant and expects it to be accepted without question were also discussed.
Staff will present revised recommendation to Plan Commission for final recommendation.
Possible Fiscal Impact Study and workshop was proposed to be scheduled for the plan commission. This will be of interest to the DCEDI as well. Two companies are being considered so far for this work.
Meeting adjourned at 9 PM
Christine Brauer Mueller
Lawrenceburg Township
Present: Mark Mitter, Chairman, Jeff Hughes, Patrick deMaynadier, Robert Laws, Nick
Held, Jane Ohlmansiek, Mike Hall, and Tarry Feiss.
Also Present: Travis Miller, Planning Director, and Mark McCormack, Enforcement Officer
Public present: Kathy Scott, Mark Neff, Archie Crouch, Nicole Daily, Kim Elam, Tom Kent, Jim Kinnett, Chris Mueller.
The Plan Commission reviewed the current street classifications and
design guidelines. An updated map of collector and arterial street classifications was presented for possible future adoption to become the basis for a County
Thoroughfare Plan.
Travis Miller presented a flow chart and timeline for adoption of a future land use map to be appended to the Master Plan. He emphasized that future land use designation decisions must be coordinated with roadway improvement planning. This process will continue across the summer with a draft plan to be presented to the public for their input in the fall of 2005.
[NOTE: This Future Land Use Map and the above Thoroughfare Plan are an important part of the future plans for the county- public involvement is crucial to this being appropriately adopted to reflect the desires of the entire county. Watch the papers and check with the plan commission site at http://www.dearborncounty.org/planning/ for meetings on these topics.]
Subdivision Control Ordinance Appendix C – Geometric Design Guidelinesfor all roadway classifications and categories were reviewed and the criteria
used to determine the classification of roadways were discussed. (see also Section 24 of Zoning Ordinance)
Staff will prepare a text amendment of the Subdivision Control Ordinance Appendix C including a second design guideline without parking for Curb and Gutter streets for public hearing and final recommendation.
Concerns regarding a conflict between the required driveway spacing
requirements for arterial and collector roads being greater than the required lot
frontage within the Agriculture zone district. This will be addressed by potential text amendment(s) to remedy the lot frontage vs. driveway spacing conflict and present to Plan Commission for further review and discussion.
Eventually these recommend amendments will be added to the Comprehensive Plan so it will have an official Roadway Classification and Thoroughfare Plan.
Cul-de-sac Street
Staff proposed changes to Subdivision Control Ordinance Section 305-N and
Article 6 for review. Clarification suggested by Plan Commission. Staff will modify the definition text and the graphic diagram present revised recommendation to Plan
Commission for final recommendation.
Traffic Impact Study for Zone Changes and Development Proposals
Applicants were concerned with possible time delays in the review process if county approved firms were busy. Funding mechanisms will be defined – e.g. cash, bonding, letter of credit, escrow accounts, etc. Ownership of interest needs to be addressed. Applicant issues were discussed regarding the weight given to the consultants report. Issues regarding the conflict of interest when the applicant hires the consultant and expects it to be accepted without question were also discussed.
Staff will present revised recommendation to Plan Commission for final recommendation.
Possible Fiscal Impact Study and workshop was proposed to be scheduled for the plan commission. This will be of interest to the DCEDI as well. Two companies are being considered so far for this work.
Meeting adjourned at 9 PM
Christine Brauer Mueller
Lawrenceburg Township
Wednesday, April 20, 2005
19 April 2005 Dearborn County Commissioner Meeting Notes
19 April 2005 Dearborn County Commissioner Meeting Notes
Present: Benning, President, Fox and Hughes.
Also Present: Pickens, Auditor, Messmore, Administrator, and Ewbank, Attorney.
This meeting was videotaped for Benning, as usual.
One officer from the sheriff’s department was present. [NOTE: Commissioners seem to think they need police protection at meetings when they hold a public hearing. Police presence out in the community might be a better use of their time and taxpayer dollars.]
1. Benning announced that the Trackville Road zone change hearing was tabled again and reset for May 17th.
2. Public hearing for the Dog Ridge Rd.- Maxwell Properties zone change R-DP on 101.28 acres in Sect 15 of Kelso Township.
Travis Miller presented the case with a summary of the plan commission hearing and noted that this was given a Favorable recommendation with 5 ayes and 3 nay votes. There are written commitments for the sewer to be provided by St. Leon and the intersection improvements to be made at SR1 and SR46. Miller also presented the petitions that were turned in at the Plan Commission hearing for the commissioners.
Benning limited the attorney- Joe Calder (sp?- the sound system was really scratchy)- to three minutes just like the citizens, even though he was to be the spokesperson for most of them. Several citizens protested this vehemently. [NOTE: When the citizens try to condense their presentation and also invest a few thousand dollars in attorney fees, it seems unreasonable and shortsighted to limit the attorney to 3 minutes.]
In his comments at the beginning of the meeting, he discussed four main points:
1. This development dramatically changes the balance of development in the area. There are currently 125 homes in the surrounding 8,000 acres. This development puts 198 on 101 acres. [NOTE: If this density is to save land by consolidating homes in one area, as the developer noted in his application, then the argument could be made that the 325 homes in 8,101 acres is a good thing for farmland preservation. As often occurs, however, that save-the-land argument that applicant’s use to get the first development in causes a domino effect. Then the next one notes that this one is here and he should be able to build one just as dense next to it, etc.]
2. This development eats up all the available predicted capacity thru the year 2020 according to master plan calculations.
3. The LOS classifications in the traffic study are misleading. They need a Category 2 road to absorb this traffic. In fact the LOS during peak traffic times around the school is D-F, when the master plan states a level C is to be the standard.
4. The tax rate as published in the paper for Kelso shows a 25% increase from 1.6674 to 2.0574. This development and its impact on schools and services will only increase that further in the long run.
He then urged the commissioners to send it back to the Plan Commission for a more reasonable density.
The issues discussed by citizens included: safety with an already overloaded volunteer fire, and emergency dept. which is covered by out of township personnel, taxes which jumped 25% with reassessment, road shoulders being non-existent, so walking and school children will be at risk with traffic, density out of character to the area, average daily traffic volumes do not address peak traffic issues, people buying into Ag to be able to enjoy peace and quiet and low crime, not high density subdivisions, farms provide food and alternative fuel sources- why destroy them, decisions are already made- only listening to be polite- not really hearing our concerns, farmers in the area were not given a chance to buy this land to keep the community agricultural, road maintenance provided by farmers in winter, construction effects on water, drainage, and erosion in area surrounding the development, balancing rights of the citizens with the developers. It was also mentioned that we live in a world of options- night/day, love/hate, and country life/city life. [NOTE: This comment strikes to the heart of the development issue in this part of the county. Can Dearborn County provide a variety of lifestyles in different communities or are we going to let economics drive development to the cheapest and easiest lands to develop?]
John Maxwell answered several points on how he would catch the drainage and control erosion. He stated that he would try to eliminate some of the drainage issues that currently exist, but made no promises. He stated that they did not come in high and then change it to half that in their second application on the property on purpose as alleged by the attorney as a common ploy of developers. He also stated that when he studied the master plan and looked at the area two things defined the character for him- the sewer lines and East Central HS. [NOTE: How do underground sewer lines define character?]
Fox told Travis Miller that the comp plan goal was to save ground, that they were to try to make development more like a planned community, and that spreading out homes uses more land.
Public hearing was closed at 7:30 PM and Fox motioned and Hughes 2nd to approve the zone change. All ayes. It was unclear on the change being R or R-DP. They referenced the 5 points to consider in a zone change, but they did not address how they thought each of them was accomplished.
3. Cliff Eibeck- asked the commissioners to fix the sound system and also to use the microphones and not mumble. Dale Wendelman stated that he’d worked on the system, but without any schematics he couldn’t fix it all. [NOTE: Perhaps they need a 2nd opinion?]
4. Kathy Scott- presented several questions on planning ordinance changes-
1. Can we expect that people will be closed out of public hearings, like the first one this year? She noted that tonight’s was better.
2. Why is it so important to quickly approve a zone change if you have 90 days to think about it? Travis Miller explained that they PC had to certify them within 10 days, but beyond that there was no hurry. [NOTE: The developer is often in a hurry to get started- time is money to their plans]
Fox also gave an overview of how he does his homework on issues by visiting the site, reading the PC minutes, asking PC board members questions, and generally knowing some of these areas from his school board tenure.
3. Does “recommend” mean “needs to be done”? Miller explained that the staff recommendations are put out for the PC to consider. Mitter explained that the board usually adopts those recommendations, that the one for geotech studies on Barber Rd. development was rare. It will get done per the ordinance, but they felt that it didn’t have to be done in advance as the staff recommended. [NOTE: If the county does not find some way to increase the duration of the bond on that road design, the county will be taking a huge risk. Hillside roads, even well-engineered ones, do not always fail in the first year.]
4. Why does it appear we are changing ordinances whenever a developer asks? She noted a large number of variance requests also. The ordinance was a good standard- why change?
5. Migrant housing on Beiersdorfer Orchard property- Craig Beckley- was probably coming in mid May per Jeff Hughes- they cancelled tonight.
6. Pickens presented the Manchester EMS contract for signing. Fox motioned and Hughes 2nd. Approved.
Claims and minutes of previous meetings approved.
Pickens noted there is a special meeting at 5:30 PM Wed Apr 20 for the Council for tax penalty waiver. Commissioners were invited.
7. Ewbank- Att’y- stated he was working on an ordinance to relieve the penalty on the payable 04 taxes. SBOA has to review it also. The Auditor and Treasurer petitioned this.
He also stated that he responded to the Public Access Counselor on a formal complaint about their previous executive session being improperly advertised.
8. Benning noted that a plaque was being made for Al Werner- “our first building inspector” and was paid for by public donations. They will have a reception and present it at a later date.
She announced that Travis Miller will be given an outstanding public service award on Fountain Square May 4th. Jeff Hughes recommended him for this through OKI.
9. Travis Miller reported that the GIS demonstrations in the building went well and personnel recommended a task force on GIS be formed. They are presenting to Soil and Water also.
Meeting adjourned 8:10 PM
Christine Brauer Mueller
Lawrenceburg Township
Present: Benning, President, Fox and Hughes.
Also Present: Pickens, Auditor, Messmore, Administrator, and Ewbank, Attorney.
This meeting was videotaped for Benning, as usual.
One officer from the sheriff’s department was present. [NOTE: Commissioners seem to think they need police protection at meetings when they hold a public hearing. Police presence out in the community might be a better use of their time and taxpayer dollars.]
1. Benning announced that the Trackville Road zone change hearing was tabled again and reset for May 17th.
2. Public hearing for the Dog Ridge Rd.- Maxwell Properties zone change R-DP on 101.28 acres in Sect 15 of Kelso Township.
Travis Miller presented the case with a summary of the plan commission hearing and noted that this was given a Favorable recommendation with 5 ayes and 3 nay votes. There are written commitments for the sewer to be provided by St. Leon and the intersection improvements to be made at SR1 and SR46. Miller also presented the petitions that were turned in at the Plan Commission hearing for the commissioners.
Benning limited the attorney- Joe Calder (sp?- the sound system was really scratchy)- to three minutes just like the citizens, even though he was to be the spokesperson for most of them. Several citizens protested this vehemently. [NOTE: When the citizens try to condense their presentation and also invest a few thousand dollars in attorney fees, it seems unreasonable and shortsighted to limit the attorney to 3 minutes.]
In his comments at the beginning of the meeting, he discussed four main points:
1. This development dramatically changes the balance of development in the area. There are currently 125 homes in the surrounding 8,000 acres. This development puts 198 on 101 acres. [NOTE: If this density is to save land by consolidating homes in one area, as the developer noted in his application, then the argument could be made that the 325 homes in 8,101 acres is a good thing for farmland preservation. As often occurs, however, that save-the-land argument that applicant’s use to get the first development in causes a domino effect. Then the next one notes that this one is here and he should be able to build one just as dense next to it, etc.]
2. This development eats up all the available predicted capacity thru the year 2020 according to master plan calculations.
3. The LOS classifications in the traffic study are misleading. They need a Category 2 road to absorb this traffic. In fact the LOS during peak traffic times around the school is D-F, when the master plan states a level C is to be the standard.
4. The tax rate as published in the paper for Kelso shows a 25% increase from 1.6674 to 2.0574. This development and its impact on schools and services will only increase that further in the long run.
He then urged the commissioners to send it back to the Plan Commission for a more reasonable density.
The issues discussed by citizens included: safety with an already overloaded volunteer fire, and emergency dept. which is covered by out of township personnel, taxes which jumped 25% with reassessment, road shoulders being non-existent, so walking and school children will be at risk with traffic, density out of character to the area, average daily traffic volumes do not address peak traffic issues, people buying into Ag to be able to enjoy peace and quiet and low crime, not high density subdivisions, farms provide food and alternative fuel sources- why destroy them, decisions are already made- only listening to be polite- not really hearing our concerns, farmers in the area were not given a chance to buy this land to keep the community agricultural, road maintenance provided by farmers in winter, construction effects on water, drainage, and erosion in area surrounding the development, balancing rights of the citizens with the developers. It was also mentioned that we live in a world of options- night/day, love/hate, and country life/city life. [NOTE: This comment strikes to the heart of the development issue in this part of the county. Can Dearborn County provide a variety of lifestyles in different communities or are we going to let economics drive development to the cheapest and easiest lands to develop?]
John Maxwell answered several points on how he would catch the drainage and control erosion. He stated that he would try to eliminate some of the drainage issues that currently exist, but made no promises. He stated that they did not come in high and then change it to half that in their second application on the property on purpose as alleged by the attorney as a common ploy of developers. He also stated that when he studied the master plan and looked at the area two things defined the character for him- the sewer lines and East Central HS. [NOTE: How do underground sewer lines define character?]
Fox told Travis Miller that the comp plan goal was to save ground, that they were to try to make development more like a planned community, and that spreading out homes uses more land.
Public hearing was closed at 7:30 PM and Fox motioned and Hughes 2nd to approve the zone change. All ayes. It was unclear on the change being R or R-DP. They referenced the 5 points to consider in a zone change, but they did not address how they thought each of them was accomplished.
3. Cliff Eibeck- asked the commissioners to fix the sound system and also to use the microphones and not mumble. Dale Wendelman stated that he’d worked on the system, but without any schematics he couldn’t fix it all. [NOTE: Perhaps they need a 2nd opinion?]
4. Kathy Scott- presented several questions on planning ordinance changes-
1. Can we expect that people will be closed out of public hearings, like the first one this year? She noted that tonight’s was better.
2. Why is it so important to quickly approve a zone change if you have 90 days to think about it? Travis Miller explained that they PC had to certify them within 10 days, but beyond that there was no hurry. [NOTE: The developer is often in a hurry to get started- time is money to their plans]
Fox also gave an overview of how he does his homework on issues by visiting the site, reading the PC minutes, asking PC board members questions, and generally knowing some of these areas from his school board tenure.
3. Does “recommend” mean “needs to be done”? Miller explained that the staff recommendations are put out for the PC to consider. Mitter explained that the board usually adopts those recommendations, that the one for geotech studies on Barber Rd. development was rare. It will get done per the ordinance, but they felt that it didn’t have to be done in advance as the staff recommended. [NOTE: If the county does not find some way to increase the duration of the bond on that road design, the county will be taking a huge risk. Hillside roads, even well-engineered ones, do not always fail in the first year.]
4. Why does it appear we are changing ordinances whenever a developer asks? She noted a large number of variance requests also. The ordinance was a good standard- why change?
5. Migrant housing on Beiersdorfer Orchard property- Craig Beckley- was probably coming in mid May per Jeff Hughes- they cancelled tonight.
6. Pickens presented the Manchester EMS contract for signing. Fox motioned and Hughes 2nd. Approved.
Claims and minutes of previous meetings approved.
Pickens noted there is a special meeting at 5:30 PM Wed Apr 20 for the Council for tax penalty waiver. Commissioners were invited.
7. Ewbank- Att’y- stated he was working on an ordinance to relieve the penalty on the payable 04 taxes. SBOA has to review it also. The Auditor and Treasurer petitioned this.
He also stated that he responded to the Public Access Counselor on a formal complaint about their previous executive session being improperly advertised.
8. Benning noted that a plaque was being made for Al Werner- “our first building inspector” and was paid for by public donations. They will have a reception and present it at a later date.
She announced that Travis Miller will be given an outstanding public service award on Fountain Square May 4th. Jeff Hughes recommended him for this through OKI.
9. Travis Miller reported that the GIS demonstrations in the building went well and personnel recommended a task force on GIS be formed. They are presenting to Soil and Water also.
Meeting adjourned 8:10 PM
Christine Brauer Mueller
Lawrenceburg Township
Wednesday, April 13, 2005
12 April 2005 Dearborn County BZA Meeting Highlights
12 April 2005 Dearborn County BZA Meeting Highlights
Present: Chairman Deaton, Baker, Ohlmansiek, and Hoog. 5th member absent.
Also present: Travis Miller, Planning Director, Mark McCormack, Enf. Officer, and Arnie McGill, Att’y
1. Stephanie McCurry’s request for a 110 ft. side lot variance on her 30- unit kennel in an Ag district in Logan Township on Peppertown Rd. was DENIED.
Issues brought up by the neighbors included sanitation and flow to Johnson Fork Creek, Road safety, noise, security from more strangers on the road as well as dogs getting loose. 52 signatures on a petition were delivered to the board.
[NOTE: There were several people who spoke about having quiet and peace in the country and the noise potential. Though enclosed there was clearly no assurance that the building was insulated enough to keep the noise level down. There were no references among the board members to the ordinance sections 2528 and 2532 and any attempt to see if the construction could meet those guidelines on noise abatement.]
Baker’s motion to deny died for lack of a second.
Hoog motioned to approve the variance with a change in hours of operation from 8-6PM and a max of 30 dogs per 30 units. He also referenced the points of law to be satisfied in granting a variance. Ohlmansiek 2nded with 2 Ayes and 2 Nays. With no further motions the application for a variance was denied.
2. Conditional use for Rohe Development represented by Bayer/Becker engineers for the location of condos on Mt. Pleasant Rd. in Logan Township was APPROVED.
Only one member of the public (Karen Wolff) spoke at this, citing issues with numerous condo and apt. approvals in the area, school overflow, safety issues with Harrison covering fire and ems services, possible overextension of St. Leon Sewer capacity, and road issues with the narrowness of Mt. Pleasant and the North Dearborn intersection deficiencies. She ended with: “On behalf of the rural community, please do not approve this.”
Bayer Becker noted that the Plan Commission and Commissioners unanimously approved the plans, with changes that the developer had signed off on. They did not have their covenants drawn up, they did not have their plans redrawn to reflect those changes, and they did not have the HOA terms defined yet. They stated that the roads IN the development were private and so no county expense on maintenance etc. They did not offer to do anything extra to Mt. Pleasant other than the area in front of their development.
[NOTE: What’s the hurry? It seems that the BZA should have tabled this item to get accurate drawings, definitive plans particularly regarding the ownership and duration of the greenspace, and perhaps some funding to share in the county’s expense in improving the intersection at North Dearborn, because of the increased stress on the road and intersection that this density will cause. Other developers are stepping up to the plate and providing this as an incentive to getting their developments accepted, when they are proposed in an area ahead of the planned road improvements.]
Ohlmansiek motioned to grant the conditional use to reflect the site plan and written commitments to the Plan Commission, Commissioners, and Rohe Development. Hoog 2nd. All ayes. Passed unanimously.
Meeting adjourned after some administrative issues at approximately 9 PM
Christine Brauer Mueller
Lawrenceburg Township
Present: Chairman Deaton, Baker, Ohlmansiek, and Hoog. 5th member absent.
Also present: Travis Miller, Planning Director, Mark McCormack, Enf. Officer, and Arnie McGill, Att’y
1. Stephanie McCurry’s request for a 110 ft. side lot variance on her 30- unit kennel in an Ag district in Logan Township on Peppertown Rd. was DENIED.
Issues brought up by the neighbors included sanitation and flow to Johnson Fork Creek, Road safety, noise, security from more strangers on the road as well as dogs getting loose. 52 signatures on a petition were delivered to the board.
[NOTE: There were several people who spoke about having quiet and peace in the country and the noise potential. Though enclosed there was clearly no assurance that the building was insulated enough to keep the noise level down. There were no references among the board members to the ordinance sections 2528 and 2532 and any attempt to see if the construction could meet those guidelines on noise abatement.]
Baker’s motion to deny died for lack of a second.
Hoog motioned to approve the variance with a change in hours of operation from 8-6PM and a max of 30 dogs per 30 units. He also referenced the points of law to be satisfied in granting a variance. Ohlmansiek 2nded with 2 Ayes and 2 Nays. With no further motions the application for a variance was denied.
2. Conditional use for Rohe Development represented by Bayer/Becker engineers for the location of condos on Mt. Pleasant Rd. in Logan Township was APPROVED.
Only one member of the public (Karen Wolff) spoke at this, citing issues with numerous condo and apt. approvals in the area, school overflow, safety issues with Harrison covering fire and ems services, possible overextension of St. Leon Sewer capacity, and road issues with the narrowness of Mt. Pleasant and the North Dearborn intersection deficiencies. She ended with: “On behalf of the rural community, please do not approve this.”
Bayer Becker noted that the Plan Commission and Commissioners unanimously approved the plans, with changes that the developer had signed off on. They did not have their covenants drawn up, they did not have their plans redrawn to reflect those changes, and they did not have the HOA terms defined yet. They stated that the roads IN the development were private and so no county expense on maintenance etc. They did not offer to do anything extra to Mt. Pleasant other than the area in front of their development.
[NOTE: What’s the hurry? It seems that the BZA should have tabled this item to get accurate drawings, definitive plans particularly regarding the ownership and duration of the greenspace, and perhaps some funding to share in the county’s expense in improving the intersection at North Dearborn, because of the increased stress on the road and intersection that this density will cause. Other developers are stepping up to the plate and providing this as an incentive to getting their developments accepted, when they are proposed in an area ahead of the planned road improvements.]
Ohlmansiek motioned to grant the conditional use to reflect the site plan and written commitments to the Plan Commission, Commissioners, and Rohe Development. Hoog 2nd. All ayes. Passed unanimously.
Meeting adjourned after some administrative issues at approximately 9 PM
Christine Brauer Mueller
Lawrenceburg Township
Tuesday, April 05, 2005
5 April 2005 Dearborn County Commissioner Meeting Notes
5 April 2005 Dearborn County Commissioner Meeting Notes
Present: Benning, President, Hughes, and Fox
Also Present: Ewbank, Attorney, Pickens, Auditor, and Messmore, Administrator
The meeting was preceded by an executive session on personnel issues. No announcement was made of any decision resulting from that meeting.
1. Mike Hall- surveyor requested the Trackville Rd subdivision be tabled until April 19th due to a scheduling conflict. The developer had a meeting in Franklin County tonight. Commissioners agreed.
2. Bill Black- EMA Director – still couldn’t get commissioners to sign off on the county plan because they couldn’t get their disks of information to work on their computers. Benning requested that he present the disk info to them at the next meeting.
The 800 MgHz system that the surrounding counties are either on or are in the process of adopting has yet to be adopted by the county. They are still waiting to see if they can finance it completely through the bond bank and how much of that loan will be absorbed or forgiven by L-bg. The state pays for the tower sites and our radio service is “free”. Black has purchased many of the radios already with grant money.
Fox motioned and Hughes 2nd to allow Black to accept a surplus computer. Resolution to accept signed.
3. Catherine Deyer- DIRECTIONS- presented the background, the programs they run under the CMHC, and resolution to declare April Sexual Assault Awareness Month. Of interest- there are currently 111 convicted sex offenders in Dearborn County.
4. Ellen Davis of Lifetime Resources presented a sub-recipient agreement to be signed so they can pursue grants for homeowner rehab funds. The match needed is $30,000, but they intend to get it through other sources and grants – not the county. Pickens told then there were no available appropriations for this.
5. Claims and Minutes were approved and the Sparta EMS unit standard contract was signed. Bryan Messmore to check to be sure insurance is in place and the county is held harmless.
6. Bryan Messmore- Administrator- brought up the issue of notification for zone change hearings and what the commissioners would like to do regarding setting a policy or ordinance on that. Ewbank and he will review it and present options regarding certified mailings, regular mailings, newspaper notices, or combinations of these. [NOTE: The Planning Office also posts a sign on the property so neighbors beyond just the adjoining ones have some notice.] Ewbank noted that he wanted any possible court decisions to be substantive rather than just technicalities of notifications should a writ of certiorari be filed, for example. He also thought that they should make every attempt to insure due process for the affected citizens. [NOTE: That’s a step in the right direction.]
7. Bob Ewbank- Attorney- wants to work on ordinance review to clarify council and commissioner duties and powers so that they are not overlapping. He referenced a recent Council issue where they wanted to make a salary ordinance without Commissioners requesting it on a former commissioner employee.
He also wanted to clarify how wide a county road should be. He referenced The Apparent Right of Way Statute. He briefly discussed the option of declaring all county roads to be possibly 40 ft. Or 50 ft. [NOTE: There is a Transportation Assessment that would be helpful to start with for this information. It is part of the master plan and includes this data. Mandating all county roads to be a certain width would end up with the county owning property inside some people’s houses and barns. A more comprehensive solution would be to first- get a county engineer hired and second- continue on with more of the Transportation study and updates as well as creating the 4 year road plan doe prioritizing maintenance and improvements to county roads.]
8. Jeff Hughes- Asked several questions regarding the possibility of a light at Stateline and Stephens Rd. paid for by Macke as part of the Sugar Ridge Planned Unit Development and attached Transportation assessment. Apparently the bond for this will lapse in May and he wants the county to either renew that bond or decide to get the light installed. Engineering to set it up would cost $35,000 – 50,000 and the light would be about $10,000.
He asked about who did the study on the 4 way intersection in Bright. (Beam Longest and Neff) and what the status was there. (Study done and ROW acquisitions became issues.)
Hughes also asked about getting a building and or trailer with a bathroom for the District 1 crew. They have nothing and the other two districts do have facilities. [NOTE: It seems pretty bizarre that there is no office for D-1 highway crew.]
9. Rick Fox had no further comments and Benning added the news that IDEM had finally officially released the county from the environmental violation on the buried tanks that they had already cleaned.
Meeting adjourned at 7:45 PM
Christine Brauer Mueller
Lawrenceburg Township
Present: Benning, President, Hughes, and Fox
Also Present: Ewbank, Attorney, Pickens, Auditor, and Messmore, Administrator
The meeting was preceded by an executive session on personnel issues. No announcement was made of any decision resulting from that meeting.
1. Mike Hall- surveyor requested the Trackville Rd subdivision be tabled until April 19th due to a scheduling conflict. The developer had a meeting in Franklin County tonight. Commissioners agreed.
2. Bill Black- EMA Director – still couldn’t get commissioners to sign off on the county plan because they couldn’t get their disks of information to work on their computers. Benning requested that he present the disk info to them at the next meeting.
The 800 MgHz system that the surrounding counties are either on or are in the process of adopting has yet to be adopted by the county. They are still waiting to see if they can finance it completely through the bond bank and how much of that loan will be absorbed or forgiven by L-bg. The state pays for the tower sites and our radio service is “free”. Black has purchased many of the radios already with grant money.
Fox motioned and Hughes 2nd to allow Black to accept a surplus computer. Resolution to accept signed.
3. Catherine Deyer- DIRECTIONS- presented the background, the programs they run under the CMHC, and resolution to declare April Sexual Assault Awareness Month. Of interest- there are currently 111 convicted sex offenders in Dearborn County.
4. Ellen Davis of Lifetime Resources presented a sub-recipient agreement to be signed so they can pursue grants for homeowner rehab funds. The match needed is $30,000, but they intend to get it through other sources and grants – not the county. Pickens told then there were no available appropriations for this.
5. Claims and Minutes were approved and the Sparta EMS unit standard contract was signed. Bryan Messmore to check to be sure insurance is in place and the county is held harmless.
6. Bryan Messmore- Administrator- brought up the issue of notification for zone change hearings and what the commissioners would like to do regarding setting a policy or ordinance on that. Ewbank and he will review it and present options regarding certified mailings, regular mailings, newspaper notices, or combinations of these. [NOTE: The Planning Office also posts a sign on the property so neighbors beyond just the adjoining ones have some notice.] Ewbank noted that he wanted any possible court decisions to be substantive rather than just technicalities of notifications should a writ of certiorari be filed, for example. He also thought that they should make every attempt to insure due process for the affected citizens. [NOTE: That’s a step in the right direction.]
7. Bob Ewbank- Attorney- wants to work on ordinance review to clarify council and commissioner duties and powers so that they are not overlapping. He referenced a recent Council issue where they wanted to make a salary ordinance without Commissioners requesting it on a former commissioner employee.
He also wanted to clarify how wide a county road should be. He referenced The Apparent Right of Way Statute. He briefly discussed the option of declaring all county roads to be possibly 40 ft. Or 50 ft. [NOTE: There is a Transportation Assessment that would be helpful to start with for this information. It is part of the master plan and includes this data. Mandating all county roads to be a certain width would end up with the county owning property inside some people’s houses and barns. A more comprehensive solution would be to first- get a county engineer hired and second- continue on with more of the Transportation study and updates as well as creating the 4 year road plan doe prioritizing maintenance and improvements to county roads.]
8. Jeff Hughes- Asked several questions regarding the possibility of a light at Stateline and Stephens Rd. paid for by Macke as part of the Sugar Ridge Planned Unit Development and attached Transportation assessment. Apparently the bond for this will lapse in May and he wants the county to either renew that bond or decide to get the light installed. Engineering to set it up would cost $35,000 – 50,000 and the light would be about $10,000.
He asked about who did the study on the 4 way intersection in Bright. (Beam Longest and Neff) and what the status was there. (Study done and ROW acquisitions became issues.)
Hughes also asked about getting a building and or trailer with a bathroom for the District 1 crew. They have nothing and the other two districts do have facilities. [NOTE: It seems pretty bizarre that there is no office for D-1 highway crew.]
9. Rick Fox had no further comments and Benning added the news that IDEM had finally officially released the county from the environmental violation on the buried tanks that they had already cleaned.
Meeting adjourned at 7:45 PM
Christine Brauer Mueller
Lawrenceburg Township
Tuesday, March 29, 2005
28 March 2005 Dearborn County Plan Commission Meeting
28 March 2005 Plan Commission Meeting
Present: Mark Mitter, Chairman, Jeff Hughes, Mike Hall, Tarry Feiss, Jane Ohlmansiek, Nick Held, Bob Laws, and Dennis Kraus, Jr.
Absent: Patrick de Maynadier
Also Present: Arnie McGill, Attorney, Travis Miller, Plan Director, and Mark McCormack, Enforcement Officer
An executive session preceded this meeting. Mitter called Richard Schmidt to the podium to explain to him the decision of the executive session. Schmidt’s application for a 74- lot subdivision on White’s Hill was tabled indefinitely on the advice of both the planning attorney and the county attorney, pending the outcome of the lawsuit on that property. The county decided to refund Schmidt’s application fee in full.
1. Old Business- tabled from last meeting- Zone change from Ag to B-1 for operation of a golf course and restaurant (on 2 acres) on Mt. Pleasant Rd in Logan Township. Owner- Lonnie Steele. Jeff Stenger was unable to present for Steele due to being in the hospital.
Only one member of the public spoke- Karen Wolf. Discussion included the illegal operation and the health dept situation with the septic tank issues. She also mentioned hours that were well beyond that of a golf course and live music at the restaurant facility. She further quoted Rick Fox’s comments at a previous public hearing at the commissioners regarding this land and stated she thought he needed to abstain when it came to their board. (She apologized to Kraus for attributing them to him by mistake)
Nicole Daily of Bayer Becker also spoke regarding the sewage and a meeting with St. Leon’s lawyers who were drafting an agreement to bring the sewer down Mt. Pleasant for their condos and the Farm golf course.
Lonnie Steele stated that the golf course would “go away” if no sewage line could be obtained. He stated that he was not given clear direction from the previous director and now was trying to do what he needed to do to get into compliance. He said he would live with whatever the board decided.
Many plan commission members were uncomfortable with a spot B-1 out in the Ag area there, because of what else could go in a B-1. Laws had no problem with a restaurant, but didn’t like the banquet hall idea. They thought about doing an R-DP to limit the zone change to just this requested plan. Mitter informed them that with current staff- there would be enforcement issues with all these R-DP land use certificates.
Feiss motioned and Hughes 2nd to pass this on the commissioners with a FAVORABLE RECOMMENDATION with a written commitment on the sewage issues. All Ayes except for Laws- NAY
8 PM
2. New Business- Primary approval for a 124-lot subdivision- Whitewater Point on 208.25 acres of R zoned land on Barber Road in Logan Township. Applicant- John Maxwell Development and Owner- Louis Kremer.
Maxwell stated that he was OK with putting sidewalks on one side of the road. He was in compliance with the R-DP that was approved with the zone change. They had addressed the hwy dept. concerns on widening Barber Road with 18ft on the last part of it. They wanted an approval before they went thru the substantial expense of a geotech analysis of the road construction. They met with Schneider Engineering (the county’s engineering consultant) to be in concert with them on road feasibility. He hadn’t seen the Hillside Trust letter but would answer any questions they had from that.
FIVE MINUTE BREAK FOR BOARD TO REVIEW THE HILLSIDE DOCUMENT.
Public Comment- included a lawyer, an engineer, and a geologist hired by the neighbors.
Robert E Manley- stated he was an attorney experienced in planning issues, that he taught community planning at UC for 39 years and had extensive experience in hillside developments. He stated this was a potential disaster waiting to happen and it presented geotech and financial challenges. He was shocked that they would even consider preliminary approval without a geotech analysis first. Said it would be a grave mistake to do that and urged the board to not give preliminary approval until after the geotech review. He stated it would price the lots too high and that Schneider’s report was based on faith, because he had no geotech analysis to base it on. He was not sure that the developer understood his financial risks.
Stanley Cohen – Stated he was a civil engineer with years of experience and was registered in the state of IN. In his estimate the lots would go for $60,000 extra apiece due to extensive costs of the road designs. He stated that a slope of 11.9% for 2700 ft with a fall of 320 ft would be dangerous in inclement weather. Subsoil conditions indicate they need to remove 6-9 ft of it, aerate, and compact it to build. The sewage pumping station would be addition expenses on that steep hill. He was most concerned with the uphill side of the road even with a retaining wall and intercepted stormwater.
Gerald Craiger (sp?)- had degrees in geology from KS and UC and was a chief geologist for a firm in coastal CA and also in Cinti for a while. He stated that in his experience this couldn’t be built with any assurance of long-term stability without retaining walls. He based his comments on site viewing, topo, and soils. The retaining walls would have to be at least 7 ft. tall to hold the hill with some as tall as 10-12 ft. He stated these costs would be considerable and would be in addition to Mr. Cohen’s estimate. The soils referenced were Eden Pate and Colluvian (sp?) and he also mentioned the cutting effects of the Whitewater River. He said it is not impossible, but it will be difficult and expensive. The expense would pass to the county ultimately to maintain these.
Jackie Kraus- stated that St. Leon was doing a capacity study in June and they should hold off till they got those results to be sure sewage was adequate. Have we maxed out so no other farmer can develop?
Mitter stated that he had talked to St. Leon Sewer Board and the study is to determine how much to expand.
Joseph Ceese (sp?) –referenced site issues turning from Barber to SR46 because the bridge reduces visibility. He also stated that widening the road would go to the riverside and there would be slippage. He also stated that the steepest road in Cinti is by the Anderson Ferry at 18% and it is VERY STEEP.
Public discussion ended at 9PM
Maxwell responded to several points: The Hillside letter referred to Barber Rd as the sole way out of the subdivision- and he stated there was the Chappelow Ridge exit also. He also stated that when Manley stated they would knock down a hillside and leave a mess for the taxpayers, that they intend to competently engineer this and not leave a mess. There would be no pavement within the 100-year flood plain, though it was close. “We’re civil engineers and contractors by trade- we costed this out.”
Referencing the 2700 ft extensive slope, he noted that there was a leveled out are in the middle of it. NO Homes will be built on the hillside- they are all at the top. He doesn’t think there will be a single house built on piers. He doesn’t plan to build the road diagonally on this hillside now and if they have to build retaining walls- we won’t do the project- it will be too expensive.
Mike Hall asked if they had approached the landowners on Barber Rd to be sure of ROW for road widening. Maxwell said- NO. Hall concerned with the buildings right at the edge of the road.
Hughes was concerned with the steep road.
Kraus, Jr. said that they’d already granted an R-DP with the zone change and if his geotech says no- it won’t happen. We have to put some stock in Maxwell’s professional opinion, even though we have conflicting ones. We need to make it contingent on the studies.
Laws- If it’s too expensive, he’ll stop.
Held- Questioned when geotech occurs? Travis Miller stated it occurs before the improvement phase and wanted to see a geotech done.
Ohlmansiek- “This is so far over my head” I was concerned with the density of the subdivision.
Feiss- He’s been compliant with staff requests. Road will be a concern.
Mitter- No issue with the subdivision. It would be foolish NOT to be concerned with the road. Extensive geotech would inform us. Wanted it to come back to board after geotech if possible.
Hall- They haven’t researched ROW and Travis hadn’t either- so widening Barber was at issue still.
Dorothy White- citizen stated that she owned on Barber Rd and no one had contacted her about ROW.
Don Holtgrief- questioned the density again in that area….
Discussion continued and it took nearly 30 minutes to get a motion.
Kraus motioned and Laws 2nd to give primary approval pending an in-depth geotech study by a county approved engineering firm to be reviewed by tech review board and that Barber and Chappelow Ridge be widened to 20 and 18 ft respectively by the developer. All ayes. Approved.
3. The Board voted to pass a favorable recommendation to the commissioners to repeal the old flood plain ordinance and replace it with FEMA’s new one.
4. Other changes in the ordinance on cul-de-sacs, Article 6 and 2448 on traffic studies will be looked over and decided at the working session on April 20th. The board is considering cul-de sacs to by 1200 ft max with 30 homes, measured from the last intersection. They are also considering having developers pay into a fund when traffic studies are required and the county will hire the traffic study, so that it will be neutral information.
5. There was discussion of hiring a consultant to do a fiscal impact model for different land uses in the county in order to maintain and promote a sustainable community. This will also be decided at the April 20th meeting.
Don Townsend approached Travis with the erosion control ordinance revisions that Jennifer Hughes from Soil and Water had helped with. He wanted to know if they wanted him to draft a letter of support for this effort, which will go to the commissioners in late April or May. To be decided by PC at April 20th meeting after reviewing.
There is a certificate of appreciation they need to give to Dave Schmidtgoesling- hopefully at the April PC meeting.
McGill said there were 30 lawsuits out- mostly enforcement issues.
Application deadlines will be firmer- the board does not want to be reviewing things at the meeting.
Mitter questioned whether he should have let people speak after public discussion was ended, but most seemed to agree that it should be a judgment call.
Meeting adjourned at 11:10 PM
Christine Brauer Mueller
Lawrenceburg Township
Present: Mark Mitter, Chairman, Jeff Hughes, Mike Hall, Tarry Feiss, Jane Ohlmansiek, Nick Held, Bob Laws, and Dennis Kraus, Jr.
Absent: Patrick de Maynadier
Also Present: Arnie McGill, Attorney, Travis Miller, Plan Director, and Mark McCormack, Enforcement Officer
An executive session preceded this meeting. Mitter called Richard Schmidt to the podium to explain to him the decision of the executive session. Schmidt’s application for a 74- lot subdivision on White’s Hill was tabled indefinitely on the advice of both the planning attorney and the county attorney, pending the outcome of the lawsuit on that property. The county decided to refund Schmidt’s application fee in full.
1. Old Business- tabled from last meeting- Zone change from Ag to B-1 for operation of a golf course and restaurant (on 2 acres) on Mt. Pleasant Rd in Logan Township. Owner- Lonnie Steele. Jeff Stenger was unable to present for Steele due to being in the hospital.
Only one member of the public spoke- Karen Wolf. Discussion included the illegal operation and the health dept situation with the septic tank issues. She also mentioned hours that were well beyond that of a golf course and live music at the restaurant facility. She further quoted Rick Fox’s comments at a previous public hearing at the commissioners regarding this land and stated she thought he needed to abstain when it came to their board. (She apologized to Kraus for attributing them to him by mistake)
Nicole Daily of Bayer Becker also spoke regarding the sewage and a meeting with St. Leon’s lawyers who were drafting an agreement to bring the sewer down Mt. Pleasant for their condos and the Farm golf course.
Lonnie Steele stated that the golf course would “go away” if no sewage line could be obtained. He stated that he was not given clear direction from the previous director and now was trying to do what he needed to do to get into compliance. He said he would live with whatever the board decided.
Many plan commission members were uncomfortable with a spot B-1 out in the Ag area there, because of what else could go in a B-1. Laws had no problem with a restaurant, but didn’t like the banquet hall idea. They thought about doing an R-DP to limit the zone change to just this requested plan. Mitter informed them that with current staff- there would be enforcement issues with all these R-DP land use certificates.
Feiss motioned and Hughes 2nd to pass this on the commissioners with a FAVORABLE RECOMMENDATION with a written commitment on the sewage issues. All Ayes except for Laws- NAY
8 PM
2. New Business- Primary approval for a 124-lot subdivision- Whitewater Point on 208.25 acres of R zoned land on Barber Road in Logan Township. Applicant- John Maxwell Development and Owner- Louis Kremer.
Maxwell stated that he was OK with putting sidewalks on one side of the road. He was in compliance with the R-DP that was approved with the zone change. They had addressed the hwy dept. concerns on widening Barber Road with 18ft on the last part of it. They wanted an approval before they went thru the substantial expense of a geotech analysis of the road construction. They met with Schneider Engineering (the county’s engineering consultant) to be in concert with them on road feasibility. He hadn’t seen the Hillside Trust letter but would answer any questions they had from that.
FIVE MINUTE BREAK FOR BOARD TO REVIEW THE HILLSIDE DOCUMENT.
Public Comment- included a lawyer, an engineer, and a geologist hired by the neighbors.
Robert E Manley- stated he was an attorney experienced in planning issues, that he taught community planning at UC for 39 years and had extensive experience in hillside developments. He stated this was a potential disaster waiting to happen and it presented geotech and financial challenges. He was shocked that they would even consider preliminary approval without a geotech analysis first. Said it would be a grave mistake to do that and urged the board to not give preliminary approval until after the geotech review. He stated it would price the lots too high and that Schneider’s report was based on faith, because he had no geotech analysis to base it on. He was not sure that the developer understood his financial risks.
Stanley Cohen – Stated he was a civil engineer with years of experience and was registered in the state of IN. In his estimate the lots would go for $60,000 extra apiece due to extensive costs of the road designs. He stated that a slope of 11.9% for 2700 ft with a fall of 320 ft would be dangerous in inclement weather. Subsoil conditions indicate they need to remove 6-9 ft of it, aerate, and compact it to build. The sewage pumping station would be addition expenses on that steep hill. He was most concerned with the uphill side of the road even with a retaining wall and intercepted stormwater.
Gerald Craiger (sp?)- had degrees in geology from KS and UC and was a chief geologist for a firm in coastal CA and also in Cinti for a while. He stated that in his experience this couldn’t be built with any assurance of long-term stability without retaining walls. He based his comments on site viewing, topo, and soils. The retaining walls would have to be at least 7 ft. tall to hold the hill with some as tall as 10-12 ft. He stated these costs would be considerable and would be in addition to Mr. Cohen’s estimate. The soils referenced were Eden Pate and Colluvian (sp?) and he also mentioned the cutting effects of the Whitewater River. He said it is not impossible, but it will be difficult and expensive. The expense would pass to the county ultimately to maintain these.
Jackie Kraus- stated that St. Leon was doing a capacity study in June and they should hold off till they got those results to be sure sewage was adequate. Have we maxed out so no other farmer can develop?
Mitter stated that he had talked to St. Leon Sewer Board and the study is to determine how much to expand.
Joseph Ceese (sp?) –referenced site issues turning from Barber to SR46 because the bridge reduces visibility. He also stated that widening the road would go to the riverside and there would be slippage. He also stated that the steepest road in Cinti is by the Anderson Ferry at 18% and it is VERY STEEP.
Public discussion ended at 9PM
Maxwell responded to several points: The Hillside letter referred to Barber Rd as the sole way out of the subdivision- and he stated there was the Chappelow Ridge exit also. He also stated that when Manley stated they would knock down a hillside and leave a mess for the taxpayers, that they intend to competently engineer this and not leave a mess. There would be no pavement within the 100-year flood plain, though it was close. “We’re civil engineers and contractors by trade- we costed this out.”
Referencing the 2700 ft extensive slope, he noted that there was a leveled out are in the middle of it. NO Homes will be built on the hillside- they are all at the top. He doesn’t think there will be a single house built on piers. He doesn’t plan to build the road diagonally on this hillside now and if they have to build retaining walls- we won’t do the project- it will be too expensive.
Mike Hall asked if they had approached the landowners on Barber Rd to be sure of ROW for road widening. Maxwell said- NO. Hall concerned with the buildings right at the edge of the road.
Hughes was concerned with the steep road.
Kraus, Jr. said that they’d already granted an R-DP with the zone change and if his geotech says no- it won’t happen. We have to put some stock in Maxwell’s professional opinion, even though we have conflicting ones. We need to make it contingent on the studies.
Laws- If it’s too expensive, he’ll stop.
Held- Questioned when geotech occurs? Travis Miller stated it occurs before the improvement phase and wanted to see a geotech done.
Ohlmansiek- “This is so far over my head” I was concerned with the density of the subdivision.
Feiss- He’s been compliant with staff requests. Road will be a concern.
Mitter- No issue with the subdivision. It would be foolish NOT to be concerned with the road. Extensive geotech would inform us. Wanted it to come back to board after geotech if possible.
Hall- They haven’t researched ROW and Travis hadn’t either- so widening Barber was at issue still.
Dorothy White- citizen stated that she owned on Barber Rd and no one had contacted her about ROW.
Don Holtgrief- questioned the density again in that area….
Discussion continued and it took nearly 30 minutes to get a motion.
Kraus motioned and Laws 2nd to give primary approval pending an in-depth geotech study by a county approved engineering firm to be reviewed by tech review board and that Barber and Chappelow Ridge be widened to 20 and 18 ft respectively by the developer. All ayes. Approved.
3. The Board voted to pass a favorable recommendation to the commissioners to repeal the old flood plain ordinance and replace it with FEMA’s new one.
4. Other changes in the ordinance on cul-de-sacs, Article 6 and 2448 on traffic studies will be looked over and decided at the working session on April 20th. The board is considering cul-de sacs to by 1200 ft max with 30 homes, measured from the last intersection. They are also considering having developers pay into a fund when traffic studies are required and the county will hire the traffic study, so that it will be neutral information.
5. There was discussion of hiring a consultant to do a fiscal impact model for different land uses in the county in order to maintain and promote a sustainable community. This will also be decided at the April 20th meeting.
Don Townsend approached Travis with the erosion control ordinance revisions that Jennifer Hughes from Soil and Water had helped with. He wanted to know if they wanted him to draft a letter of support for this effort, which will go to the commissioners in late April or May. To be decided by PC at April 20th meeting after reviewing.
There is a certificate of appreciation they need to give to Dave Schmidtgoesling- hopefully at the April PC meeting.
McGill said there were 30 lawsuits out- mostly enforcement issues.
Application deadlines will be firmer- the board does not want to be reviewing things at the meeting.
Mitter questioned whether he should have let people speak after public discussion was ended, but most seemed to agree that it should be a judgment call.
Meeting adjourned at 11:10 PM
Christine Brauer Mueller
Lawrenceburg Township
Thursday, March 24, 2005
Open Letter
To the Dearborn County Sewer Board and all Concerned Citizens of Dearborn County
RE: Rebuttal to the letter Published in the Register on November 11, 2004 “Suburbanization of the County Coming” Placed on the Dearborn County Web Log December 20, 2004.
The Dearborn County Regional Sewer District Board of Directors, as Provided by Michael Hankins, placed a letter on the Dearborn County Web Log allegedly responding to “false statements” in the letter published in the Register.
I will not bother to respond to items 1 thru 8 in the Rebuttal, except to say the following:
Their response in item 5 “The District Board has discussed at its last several meetings decreasing the cost of the project by $2 million and arriving at a monthly bill to users of approximately $60 per month.” proves the statement in the November 11th letter.
The other sewer districts mentioned are of record in the Lawrenceburg Public Library and in the County Administration Building and were mentioned in earlier submissions to this Web Log by members of the sewer board..
I intend to respond specifically to the defamatory personal attack made by “The Board” as follows:
“Ralph Thompson writes in his letter that he is an engineer. As an engineer, Ralph Thompson requested in a public meeting to perform engineering work for the District’s initial planning phase. His services were not retained. One imagines whether Ralph Thompson’s negative, misleading and/or false statements are fueled by this rejection.”
The first sentence in the statement is true. I am a Professional Engineer. The remainder of the paragraph is totally false and defamatory.
I have not applied for, asked for, proposed on or offered to do any work for the Dearborn County Commissioners, the Dearborn County Sewer District or the Dearborn County Board of Health, as an individual or as an Engineer. Therefore it is impossible for me to have been rejected for any such work. In fact, Vera Benning suggested that I work for the County, in an open Commissioners’ Meeting in late 2003 in front of the Commissioners. Cary Pickens, Lisa Lehner and many public witnesses. I flatly refused.
I have opposed the Sewer District formation from the first public meeting in early 2003 and had a letter published in the Register in November 2003 (Sewer District Fraught with Problems).opposed to the District.
I raised the issue of the development of the Gabbard Estate in early 2003 and was told repeatedly it was not about development. The development of the Gabbard Estates received primary approval in 2004 due largely to the availability of the Sewer District.
I was asked and volunteered to serve, as a citizen with engineering background on the Advisory Committee for the County Master Plan. I served through the production of the Master Plan. Mr. Travis Miller, The Planning Commission and Planning Board Members can speak to the value of my service as an informed citizen. I provided no engineering services to the Advisory Committee.
It seems the Board and Mr. Hankins are resorting to falsehoods and libel to silence opposition to their actions. Who can surmise what motives or actions they are trying to hide? Are these the kind of people we should have serving in public office (appointed or elected)?
The Bill of Rights in the Constitution provides all Citizens the right of “free speech”. It seems that members of the current government are attempting to ameliorate our right of free speech through libel, lies and now preventing citizens from speaking in the Commissioner’s Meetings. What’s next an attack on freedom of the press?
I have obtained a copy of the “Rebuttal” from the Web Manager and it has been forwarded to my attorney for appropriate action with respect to the Board, its Members, Advisers, etc.
Ralph E. Thompson, Jr., PE, CPE, NSPE
RE: Rebuttal to the letter Published in the Register on November 11, 2004 “Suburbanization of the County Coming” Placed on the Dearborn County Web Log December 20, 2004.
The Dearborn County Regional Sewer District Board of Directors, as Provided by Michael Hankins, placed a letter on the Dearborn County Web Log allegedly responding to “false statements” in the letter published in the Register.
I will not bother to respond to items 1 thru 8 in the Rebuttal, except to say the following:
Their response in item 5 “The District Board has discussed at its last several meetings decreasing the cost of the project by $2 million and arriving at a monthly bill to users of approximately $60 per month.” proves the statement in the November 11th letter.
The other sewer districts mentioned are of record in the Lawrenceburg Public Library and in the County Administration Building and were mentioned in earlier submissions to this Web Log by members of the sewer board..
I intend to respond specifically to the defamatory personal attack made by “The Board” as follows:
“Ralph Thompson writes in his letter that he is an engineer. As an engineer, Ralph Thompson requested in a public meeting to perform engineering work for the District’s initial planning phase. His services were not retained. One imagines whether Ralph Thompson’s negative, misleading and/or false statements are fueled by this rejection.”
The first sentence in the statement is true. I am a Professional Engineer. The remainder of the paragraph is totally false and defamatory.
I have not applied for, asked for, proposed on or offered to do any work for the Dearborn County Commissioners, the Dearborn County Sewer District or the Dearborn County Board of Health, as an individual or as an Engineer. Therefore it is impossible for me to have been rejected for any such work. In fact, Vera Benning suggested that I work for the County, in an open Commissioners’ Meeting in late 2003 in front of the Commissioners. Cary Pickens, Lisa Lehner and many public witnesses. I flatly refused.
I have opposed the Sewer District formation from the first public meeting in early 2003 and had a letter published in the Register in November 2003 (Sewer District Fraught with Problems).opposed to the District.
I raised the issue of the development of the Gabbard Estate in early 2003 and was told repeatedly it was not about development. The development of the Gabbard Estates received primary approval in 2004 due largely to the availability of the Sewer District.
I was asked and volunteered to serve, as a citizen with engineering background on the Advisory Committee for the County Master Plan. I served through the production of the Master Plan. Mr. Travis Miller, The Planning Commission and Planning Board Members can speak to the value of my service as an informed citizen. I provided no engineering services to the Advisory Committee.
It seems the Board and Mr. Hankins are resorting to falsehoods and libel to silence opposition to their actions. Who can surmise what motives or actions they are trying to hide? Are these the kind of people we should have serving in public office (appointed or elected)?
The Bill of Rights in the Constitution provides all Citizens the right of “free speech”. It seems that members of the current government are attempting to ameliorate our right of free speech through libel, lies and now preventing citizens from speaking in the Commissioner’s Meetings. What’s next an attack on freedom of the press?
I have obtained a copy of the “Rebuttal” from the Web Manager and it has been forwarded to my attorney for appropriate action with respect to the Board, its Members, Advisers, etc.
Ralph E. Thompson, Jr., PE, CPE, NSPE
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