24 July 2023 Dearborn County Plan Commission Meeting Notes
Present: Dennis Kraus, Jr., Chairman, Russell Beiersdorfer, Jeff Hermesch, Mark Lehman, Joe Vogel, Jake Hoog, Jim Thatcher, and Eric Lang
ABSENT: Dan Lansing
Also Present: Nicole Daily, Planning and Zoning Director, and Andy Baudendistel, Attorney.
The room was full of citizens.
Baudendistel read the Title VI statement as legally required.
ACTION ON MINUTES- June 26th Minutes Approved
OLD BUSINESS: none
NEW BUSINESS:
Request: Grand Oak Estates Phase II Primary Plat Applicant/Owner: Seig Surveying / Norb Schmid- Site Location: 370 Grand Oak Drive Parcel: #15-01-01-200-001-000.006 Township: Harrison Size: 195 acres Zoning: Agriculture- Nicole Daily presented- There are 15 single family lots and waivers on pan handles and panhandles accessing a cul de sac. 19 single family lots and one vacant lot on Phase 1. Golf Course closed then. No public sewer- lots have been soil tested for septic. It still looks like a golf course out there. Property abuts Franklin County and the state of Ohio. Topography maps were in the board’s packets. There are 15 lots on the plat- as the 16th lot was combined to get septic sites in. There is a lot for wedding venue in the future. ( This was stricken from the request)
Lot 13 accessing off Carolina Trace and some off a shared driveway even though they have access to a road there. Daily went lot by lot with their descriptions and the waivers being requested. She also described the code rules on pan handles and contiguous lots. Lot 6 is the only NEW panhandle being created in this subdivision. 30-60 ft width required on the flag lots. Direct access onto a collector road. There is an access there and so including it as a waiver, because the 50 ft strip would be needed to be approved. Tech review wants the cul de sac made into a 35 ft cul de sac to make it as big as they can because of the lots already there.
There are 2 written letter/emails on this request. Daily explained how tech review works on these applications. Wedding venue will have to go to BZA if they decide. ( again - wedding venue was stricken from the request by applicant)
Mark Lehman asked how far away sewer was.- It’s back on Stout Rd in Ohio. Harrison Brookville Rd in Indiana is where sewer is in our state. He would like to know the economics on that and getting more lots in there.
Eric Lang asked about the code change that currently requires the panhandles on the cul de sac to be a waiver now.
Rob Seig- spoke for Rhonda and Norb Schmid owners. Lot # 7 is no longer a wedding venue- they are making this a straight residential subdivision. That is off the table- no need for variance with BZA.
Soils were tested and given to the Health Dept. They worked hard to get that. There will be no further development other than what we proposed. Several miles for sewer lines and that is cost prohibitive. That answers the sewer option question.
15 lots is the most we can do. Seig went thru each of the lots again and the access agreements, pan handles, and plans. They have all utilities and letters required. They will make sure drainage is proper. Erosion control will be discussed as they proceed. They supplied preliminary covenants. There are 30 covenants. They are looking for some nicer home and restrictive covenants to increase value.They are stating that they cannot subdivide these proposed lots. Non-buildable lots may be conveyed to an adjacent landowner.
Thatcher- Grand Oak Dr is in county maintenance. There will be a lot of concrete trucks on this. Daily explained how they could maybe do a bonding at permit time to make sure there is no damage to the road perhaps. Circle back to this after other questions answered.
Lehman asked if there were shared ponds? No per Seig. Lot 8 may need an agreement as there is an embankment to the west of the lot line. Lehman also asked about Lot 11 - that pond also needs to have it reconfigured the put the pond in a non buildable tract.
Thatcher - are there existing fore hydrants in the subdivision? Currently served by Ohio water company.
OPEN PUBLIC DISCUSSION:
Joe Alexander- 29038 Riley Lane- we have had issues with flooding. We are afraid this will flood our properties It has affected I-74 at times. This happens several times a year. Drainage - he wants to know what will be done about it. He gave some pictures to board. Drainage ditch is 6 ft different than it was 10 yers ago. Roof and driveway runoff issues need to be handled.
Kevin Cornett- Lot 8 is just squeezed in- It’s an example of too much. There is a beautiful view. Lived there on Grand Oak DR for nearly 20 years. Property values are great as they are. Thought covenants had expired. ( These covenants are new ones on this request per board) Wanted 5 acre lots. Only 4 are at 2.5 acres- others are larger per board.
Charles Burbank.sp? - concerns on sewers and drainage. Quality of Grand Oaks Drive after construction traffic.
Paul Bessler sp?- live on Grand Oak Dr He was one of the original developers. He said he doesn’t think there is a fire hydrant there. He talked about the waterlines and sources. He reiterated that sewers are far away on Harrison Brookville Rd. There has been no county improvement on the road other than patching. It looks like an alligator road. It has not been improved since put in. We are not a young subdivision - we need to have a better road for EMT’s and fire trucks. Most traffic is delivery trucks now. No wells there. We needed to keep all the water there for irrigation on the course. The 3 lakes had buffered so there were no property lines there. The lowest pond has spilled over many times now. That is going to need to be maintained and monitored. Ponds are set to drop into each other. Ask the board to PLAN for what is going on.
Sue Dermody- speaking on her mothers property. She’s concerned as it runs all down hill to her mom’s property. Also where the septic will drain. House sizes? (2700 and 3200 sq ft min not counting basement and garage) Is there fencing proposed? None on plans.
Steve Doepker - survey stakes in his side yard. Questions about the location of those. Are they an approximation? Clarification of that. At 265 Grand Oak we have the long rectangle . Is there a covenant about those driveways. The county does no regulate a width of a driveway.
Amber ?- Lots 9 and 10 the access is for carts etc and not intended for cars. They said it would affect her neighbors in their current lots. We don’t want to say you cannot do what you want with your land.Concerns are with the waivers. More houses to the back and so heavy traffic for the entire road. Approving a plat- you can make it contingent on many things, if you want to. If the developer is making money - he can help us too. We are at the end off the cul de sac. The 35 ft radius would significantly cut into our front yards there. ( It can only go in the county ROW). We have a lot of smart people out there that are interested in preserving their way of life. The covenants on Phase 1 cannot be enforced by Phase 2 residents and vice versa.
Closed Public Discussion
Seig- located existing survey monuments from the first survey. They are surveying around the entire property. They did resolve the corners they did not find and will take it to the county for the record. He answered the panhandles as 25 ft each for 50 ft for the 2. He recommends it not go right on the property line.
Jake Hoog- how about the drainage issues? Seig - we have ideas on how to maintain that and the soil erosion control. These lots are fairly large lots- and remedies can be made to control some of that. You could create retention for each individual lot. Trying to use the existing ones also. This won’t be done until we get to that part of the development process. We will try to be responsible and do the right thing and not create any problems for others.
Nicole Daily- They will have to submit stormwater calculations.
Eric Lang- You can build ponds and modify them to accommodate the excess.
Russell Beiersdorfer- We had acre or more for our ponds, Only 4 times did they spill over in many many years.
OPEN PUBLIC BRIEFLY-
Steve Difiglio- Lot 17 at cul de sac.Hears spill way in the spring- maybe 4 times a year it overflows. If no one is maintaining or improving them- it will be a problem
Annette ?- One of the dams broke and it was fixed by the golf course. There is one that leaks now and there are trees growing in the dam. That’s a no-no.
END PUBLIC AGAIN
Mark Lehman- asked Nicole Daily if there was a way to redo the entire golf site for the water issues? Board discussed the idea of having this fixed and to remove 2 of the 3 ponds as there is too much land flowing into that. The fix for this should be analyzed and put into the improvement phase before approving it.
Resident Mr. Lowes- said the ponds were working right now. IF they are maintained.
Denny Kraus asked for the Board to discuss. Tech review direct access to Carolina Trace was discussed by Listerman. Assumed it was already there so they could continue that access. It does meet sight distance.
Lang asked if existing HOA there- Daily did not know. The other covenants were worded for the developer to enforce.
Baudendistel - the 5 waivers have to be addressed individually.
Hoog- asked about the 15 ft panhandle.
Daily explained the 30 ft obtained by getting 5 ft from neighbor to make a 30 ft that could be split into two 15 ft panhandles.Traffic should be less with single family dwellings.
Lehman said the sewer not being there is unfortunate. Land use change from a golf course to this and the shared dam and 3 ponds into each other. Perhaps they need to address the ownership and maintenance of the ponds.
[NOTE: PONDS are a big issue and they want to control them- but they don’t seem to know how to do it within the regulations.]
Baudendistel said that because they are asking for waivers the board can put conditions in and the property owner can agree to it or not.
Driveway bonds $5000 per driveway permit could be done per Daily, but there had been issues getting bonds in the past. Could have it done with developer to insure the road is OK.Also trying to figure out how to preserve the public street.
Mark Lehman motioned- Grant a waiver that developer work with Todd Listerman to bond and improve the cul de sac at Grand Oaks and bond driveway permits for any improvements to Grand Oaks Dr. Seconded by Joe Vogel. Approved. After Daily and Baudendistel advice. Board decided to strike this motion and start over to cover this better.
Lang motioned to approve the primary plat with the waivers (specified) submitted, and commitments that the existing ponds be analyzed and shown hydrologically not to exceed discharge velocities and flow rates beyond to current county detention and retention standards. Developers shall coordinate with County Engineer to develop a cost estimate of a bond to protect and repair the existing Grand Oaks Drive for damage due to construction traffic. Also coordinate with County Engineer for bonds to coordinate improvements to the existing road to current 35 ft ball on cul de sac in the existing right off way. Second Joe Vogel. Approved
10 minute break- resumed at 9:25 PM
ADMINISTRATIVE:
DEARBORN COUNTY PROPOSED ZONING MAP and TEXT CHANGES – To review and discuss proposed ordinance amendments and updates to the Dearborn County Zoning Ordinance and Zoning Map, specifically with respect to the text(s) of: Articles 9 and 10, regarding Agricultural and Residential Zoning Districts; Article 25, regarding General Standards and new Use Development Standards; Article 27, regarding Definitions.
Angie Whitaker- 27247 Kraus Rd in Kelso Township- worked at Fortune 500 company many years. There have been times we had to stop and change directions when new information came to light. Know you worked 3.5 years. Need to stop and see what the current landowners want for their land.
Terry Sawyers- 4254 Carrie Drive- reiterate concern and want it to be Agriculture. We do not have access to sewer. The old subdivision on her property is not really feasible.
Steve Perrine- waved his time as it was late
Greg Hyland- had departed at break.
Chris Mueller- updated the PC board that there were property on Pribble Rd that were recently changed in the map labelled PUBLIC REQUEST and the owners had not requested or been notified of that map change. I told them that I had notified our neighbors of those changes. It didn’t seem right that they might have been going in the previous maps that were displayed and online.
Board decided to work on these starting in August as there are no items on the agenda.They don’t see the maps being ready till October now. I asked if there was any way we could know when they were doing Pribble Road, so as all our family and neighbors would not have to spend another 3.5 hours and have no discussion again.
Kraus replied that they would be discussing Lawrenceburg Township in August meeting.
Meeting adjourned at 9:45 PM
Christine Brauer Mueller
Lawrenceburg Township
