Tuesday, June 28, 2011

27 June 2011 Dearborn County Plan Commission Meeting Notes

27 June 2011 Dearborn County Plan Commission Meeting Notes

Present: Mike Hall, Chairman, Dennis Kraus Jr., Mark Lehman, Mike Hornbach, Dan Lansing, and Ken Nelson

ABSENT: Russell Beiersdorfer, Jeff Hughes, and Jake Hoog

Also Present: Mark McCormack, Plan Director, and Arnie McGill, Attorney.

Tim and Shari Richter are requesting a one year extension for the primary plat approval of Georgetown Acres Section 3. They are still trying to work out something with the new sewer plan that VRUC is doing and they have consulted with Greendale. Greendale is going to wait until they see what VRUC does with its improvements per the owner. They asked for a two year extension if possible. No public spoke. Nelson moved to grant the 2 year extension, with the requirement that the sub’n must comply with the fees and standards that are in place at the time that they move forward with the application. Could not catch who seconded. Approved with all ayes.


Vacate a portion of Happy Hollow Road- applicant Rob Seig and Owner David Lykins’Jackson and York Townships on 5.169 acres of Ag zoned land. Jeff Stenger was surveyor for the Engels. His survey showed there is 2.49 ft of frontage of Engels on this road. Board asked for only new information to be presented on this item.

Stenger of JDJ surveying and engineering represents the Engels– said that he apologized for not having this resolved by this meeting, They have pro-forma surveys because there are more boundary issues. The numbers are accurate and will be on the final retracement survey. The boundary summary is the overall view of john and Barb Engel and also Greg Engel. There are differences in the N-S line. This line goes 5.27 feet further than Seigs’s survey. There is a slight curvature of the road where this meets and this results in the extra road frontage. There’s a lot of other evidence out there that shows where that line really is. Stenger showed the historical divisions of the original section 5 land from the original owner (Angevine) Engel was the first divisions and so they have senior rights. The court ordered divisions of some of the last parcels shows the original 45 chains length of the Engel’s lines and the Lykins lines. These lines were converted to a quarter section – Stenger believes incorrectly- and so there is overlap. Lykins’s 20 acre tract is senior to Engels 30 acre piece. The 40 acre piece then has senior rights and the full line to the road and 2.49 ft of frontage on Happy Hollow Road. He said based on this he recommends an UNFAVORABLE recommendation to vacate Happy Hollow Road.

Seig representing Lykins- said that prescriptive easement is when a person is using a road openly for 20 years or more for an access. He said Stenger’s survey is a pro-forma survey and they have been trying to negotiate a settlement and that has not happened. He agrees with the section lines. The junior senior rites show Engel’s 40 acres, then Lykins’s 20, then Engel’s 30. When he did the original survey he did set a pin on that road area. It was within about 2 ft of the old one set by Fishvogt, a surveyor for Engels, in 1970s. We weren’t charged to survey the road at that time. He took a 2nd look recently on the north south line and this closely matches the line he has surveyed. He said if you get another surveyor out there you will get another answer. He said Mr. was paid to get frontage and his survey shows this touches the road. Again another surveyor might get another answer. He tried to duplicate Stenger’s line and he had roughly an 8 inches variance on where it touches the line. Seig apologized for them not getting things worked out before meeting here. He says there is not enough frontage for vehicle access- needs 50 ft and so he wants a FAVORABLE recommendation to vacate.


John Engel- Sept 1949 was when his grandpa bought this. The first surveyor to come out there was Roger Woodfill. Even though lots were already sold. He has lived there 60 years and that road has moved. But how can you prove that? That road is the only access to that piece. In 1962 these roads were shown plainly when his uncle owned this.

Arnie McGill said we’re hearing a lot of evidence and we are not going to make the decision. I would send it to the Commissioners with NO recommendation as there is conflicting evidence without sworn evidence.

Engle then said-that he was new at this and that he should be addressing the board. He said that the county was going to put a turnaround back there- and then all hell broke loose and here we are.

Greg Engel- there is access established and whether I walk it or drive to it- I have access. Maintenance work hasn’t been done by the county and with the gate there- that’s how the roads move. Work has done back there without the county’s knowledge. Creech had bulldozers etc. Would you keep that open so I have access for hunting at least?

Seig- said that there was meaningful access to that 30 acres with previous old roadways. To the east there is one strip of ground that goes over to Ester Ridge and that may be their means of access to that 30 acre parcel. I don’t know the history. I did my survey specific to the property. We have established junior-senior rights. Noah Creech has received evidence that the road was moved further east and further away from them previously. The 2 sons of Noah would be able to state that if contacted.

Aaron Caudell ( sp?) Engel’s son-in-law- asked just how much is needed as frontage to keep it open. Hall said that is up to the commissioners.

Seig asked if the county surveyor would weigh in. Kraus, Jr. immediately said- said absolutely not- only a judge could settle this between two surveys.

End Public Discussion

Nelson moved to pass this with NO Recommendation to the Commissioners because there is a discrepancy with the surveys. Lehman seconded. Board approved the NO Recommendation.


OKI Water Quality Maps: Draft facility planning area map for water quality and sewers will be changed so that will determine where some of our developments go.

August 18th Wed- will be a planning training session. The rates will be at a good rate if we get enough people here for it. KK Gerhart Fritz- will be giving the 2 hour workshop- starts at 7 PM.

$58,500- for comp fire and emerg services grant was awarded.

$7,000 plus grant was awarded for a speed monitor like on US 50.

Meeting adjourned at 8:20 PM

Christine Brauer Mueller
Lawrenceburg Township

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