25 November 2024 Dearborn County Plan Commission Meeting Notes
Present:, Mark Lehman, Acting Chairman, Russell Beiersdorfer, Jeff Hermesch, Joe Vogel, Jake Hoog, Dan Lansing, Jim Thatcher, and Eric Lang
ABSENT: Dennis Kraus, Jr.
Also Present: Nicole Daily, Planning and Zoning Director, and Andy Baudendistel, Attorney.
Baudendistel read the Title VI statement as legally required.
THIS MEETING HAD A FULL HOUSE PLUS PEOPLE STANDING IN THE CORNERS AND OUTSIDE THE OPEN DOORWAY.
ACTION ON MINUTES- Sept 23rd minutes- Approved
OLD BUSINESS: none
NEW BUSINESS:
- Request: Zone Map Amendment from Agriculture Homestead (AH) to Community Business (B-1) Applicant/Owner: AR Engineering / Bradford & Amanda Poorman Site Location: SR 48 Parcel: #15-05-33-200-029.000-019 Township: Manchester Size: 3+/- acres Existing Zoning: Agriculture Homestead (AH)-
Mark Lehman asked people to sign in on cards if they want speak and limited to 3 minutes, unless they are speaking for and representing a larger group, then they would make adjustments.
Nicole Daily presented the procedures for citizens to speak at the meeting. She presented site location and pictures in the area and site near Louden Rd.. She listed the findings for a zoning map amendment. The Manchester School and Drover’s Inn are along age site area. SR 48 traffic count was 4,290. Future annual traffic for 2043 was 4,187. School zone has reduced traffic speed while in session. Crash report within a half mile there were 31 accidents. 10 were beer related, 11 property damage, and 2 fatalities. They are either at or near the intersection.15 of the accidents were between 9 PM and 7 AM.
Petitions were received - one had addresses with it and another did not. They did record the ones with addresses on the map location. Emails that were sent early were in the packet. The others are separate that came in closer to the meeting.
Concept plan was submitted. They need a commercial septic system. Cemeteries have to be distanced from excavation. October 21, 2024 Tech review committee - reviewed this to be sure it had the information needed to be considered. 19 noticed property owners, 14 delivered, 3 were left and one left at post office. 2 unclaimed and being sent back. The PC has 3 options- Favorable, Unfavorable or no recommendation. That is sent to the commissioners who make the final decision. There are landscaping requirements that can be included in the recommendation.
Water company, EMS, fire, no details as far as septic- (There is no sewer there) If there is no septic approval, there will be no permit issued for them. Commercial septic also goes thru the state for permitting as well.
3 acre lot is minimum acreage for a B-1 zone change. Detention or retention for drainage also needed.
Spenser O’Dell is applicant for AR Engineering and applicant. Said they will have a small parking lot and will following county’s rules on landscaping. They see the traffic counts are fairly low. They believe this spot is reasonable for this type of business.
Beiersdotfer asked- Where is the closest fire hydrant? O’Dell did not know. He did say there is a water main there.
Hoog asked - is there any other property in the area like this? Unknown
Lehman- Concept plan does not match up with the one across the street.- Answer- ideally we will be as close as we can to match that.
Beiersdorfer- Retention ponds are on higher ground here- how will it be contained? O’Dell-Answer- It’s backwards- but this is just a concept for the zone change. There is a good chance it will end up on the other side.
Daily- The state INDOT will govern about where the driveway will be.
Daily- “They" like to look for areas of 3 acres- there are no others near this, which is why they are looking at this site.
OPEN TO PUBLIC COMMENT- 6:40 PM
Ethan Runnebohm - Is not from Manchester- 246 signatures on petition. He is representing some of them. There are 3 of the 5 criteria for zone change that are most important. Current conditions and character- structure and uses of the area. There is a lot of green showing up there- Ag residents. Mostly small farms, houses, and a school. It has pretty much remained undisturbed for a long time. The people in the area like this. Where does this lead? It will change this Ag character. If we have the zone change it sets a dangerous precedent for the Plan Commissioners. They will have to do more. This is a classic example of spot zoning.
Conservation of property values within the area. People are considering selling their property if this goes thru. The applicant says it will help property values - but they give no evidence to support that statement. Referenced a study showing- 16-21% drop in property values, when adding these stores in the area.
Responsible development and growth. 7 dollar general type stores in a 20 minute radius. Why do we need this? $2million in sales per year on average. It will come from other businesses in the area. The 246 petition signers in the area would be potential Customers and they do not want this. The store does not sell basic healthy foods.
Concerns over traffic report that was added. Since SR1 was closed then- it might have raised the counts.
With the school- it is not a sidewalk area. Police response time will be lengthy- 20 minutes perhaps.
Mr Yelton- 2 types of blades- Plow which turns over soil and grows food and bulldozer blades which will be problematic. He knows about the accident reports and he was on the fire/ems and he knows about this. How would you like this type of building in your side yard. Once we dig it up- it’s changed forever. <Applause>
Brian Hamilton- no need to add to it.
Jerry Bolton- related to the Poorman’s. I am for it. I know farming is valuable-but with these small farms - there is no money in it. IF something is going to be done- this is a good location. If it was next to it I’d be Hmmm, but there is going to be change.
Brad Poorman- Had some health problems. This is not very good ground- I had it leased. There is a lot more retired people out here and it would give them a place to shop. This land is difficult to drain. This is not productive farm ground. The school there- if there are no accidents there- I don’t see why there’d be accidents here by the future store.
Jim RedElk- put together a lot of info about this property. He looked at the Dollar General stores and over 1000 are scheduled to close. There are an amazing large number of cities and towns that are beginning to realize the negative impact these types of stores have. They are trying to regulate these. These large corporations go into an area and pay top dollar to get into the market. The rush thru the zoning process and if a store gets put in- these companies have such huge food processing operations they can cut prices to their hearts content. This puts others in the area out of business. We have Manchester Market- and it has gas. If it goes out of business then the dollar store has free reign on prices and we have to go further for gas for mowers etc. This scenario is going on all over the country. I do not think this is the type of business for Manchester.
Mr. Birdsmith- grew up in Logan area- but moved to Manchester. If its such a good idea- put it next to his house ( Drover’s Inn) Looking at top map, drainage will be to the back etc…
Woman ( couldn’t catch her name- Just listening to everyone- I am now more concerned than I was. Against it and listed concerns in her email she sent in. Hearing about septic, detention pond and water. We have puddles all the time- especially in that area. Fire dept wanted to put up a sign that was lit up and was notified then. But this store will put out a lot more light than Fire dept sign. I am concerned with light pollution. You cannot see as much as you used to - she had pictures of Aurora Borealis close to the lit areas and then further out- Like night and day. Wants more of a plan before we start down this path or we end up like Bright. Discussed issues with Dollar General. Family Dollar etc in Lawrenceburg. They were warned about the rat infestration at their stores. Sunman and Lawrenceburg were affected by the fines levied on Dollar General.I submitted this with my concerns to you. Chain stores are notorious for this. Fear is that Manchester Market will be affected by this. Closeness to the school is a worry. One person working a shift at their stores often and things are not put up as they have no time.
Doug Burger- We’ve heard a lot of different things- he summarized. He wants to key in on spot zoning. It takes away from all the work you did on these maps that were approved in 2024. I own 90 acres. If this is allowed, and someone comes to me and wants 10 acres, I won’t do that. This is a family farm. Spot zoning is a slap in the face after all the work you did on adding Ag zoning here. These other locations- what do they have that we don’t have? Police and sewers. 3,297 census is our population. We talked a lot about farming. There are a lot of successful farmers in rural Indiana. We have Purdue Extension and people who can help increase the quality of our farms. The quality of our land and community is very important to a lot of the people here. Look at Profit and Loss. We want to be protected from this.
Susan Martin- (and Rex Martin) She is a health care provider in Dearborn County, We are blessed to own 236 acres. Ironically I got a letter from a land survey company trying to buy it. My husband says he will leave the land in a box. We are looking at our 4 kids and will be looking at land conservancy too to leave things good for the community. We are not farming to make a lot of money. We know when things are good and I am not getting that feeling about this proposal. Listen to the citizens and listen to their heart. I am not getting a vibe that anyone is excited about this proposal. You were talking about traffic counts -and these numbers you had show we are not booming with traffic and even projecting it to 2043 little change. So we have noted that you mentioned health problems. And we love what you have done with the Drovers Inn. I know we would try to help you find a better solution than this. She called Purdue Extension. And would like to talk about spot zoning. They have a random zoning error here.
Mike Brooks- Lot of good points. Concern that this will be a target of opportunity for maybe nefarious people traveling through. Took a while and we have a fire dept. Good school. Good community. Police protection is not here. There is a spot on this map that is dark. That spot was used to make brick for the Drover’s Inn. That mud bog is still there on the property. ( The part Poorman said was poor land)
Hassell Beshears- SR 48 is having wide loads now too. We have enough stores in the area and Kroger will deliver out here. Spot zoning will kill our community.
Dawn Gilb- bought out there because it is rural. Grandson lives with her and if I needed stores close by - I’d move to a city or town. We spent all that time and money to fix the zoning map and now someone is coming in to say to change that. Zoning is there to protect property owners. If you start this- then the next one and so on comes in and changes our community It’s not fair- we pay taxes too. This year they closed SR 1 and SR 350- that put a lot of trucks on SR 48. Accidents and torn down a lot of electric lines with the increased load.
Lauren Fox- 3200 people in Manchester are spread out. Her friend came out and told her she loves how untouched Manchester is. If you see a closed down box store- you think poverty. Community reliance- The Manchester Market has things you would’t expect to be there. Other times you ask a neighbor and they have it. In some areas they force people to get rid of their small animals - we don’t want that here.
Ms Bouvieau- (sp?)- I don’t live here but I am on a quest to see America. I think we gave resounding voice that we want MAGA and Healthy again. This store does not provide anything healthy to eat. Look at the broader picture- Ag and farmers made American great- not these corporations.
Ms Nichols (sp?)My father and mother say Aurora is not what it used to be. If we wanted to have that we’d live near one- that is not what we chose.
Amy Broughton- Moved back to Manchester recently. Isn’t Manchester FD a volunteer operation? Yes. Who is paying for permanent firemen to be on call 24 hours a day? Is the store paying for this- or the people who are hurt and cannot get the help.
Chad ??? - he and fiancee moved out here about 2 years ago. She works Downtown and I work all over. Getting away from the city and the heavily populated area is worth it. I see stars like I never could before. It would be such a eyesore to have this Dollar General. Oversized loads coming thru and knocking down power lines. A semi with 20 cars behind them and the front car forcing opposing lane cars off into the ditch at times.
Dietrich__ ?- Came back to Bright- didn’t like that and moved to Manchester- raised kids.
do not want a Dollar General.
Jessica Engels- Personally recalls an accident involving friends and forever changed life due to tragedies of those 2. Not the place for this.
Dave Zimmer- ?-Took a long time to raise money to come out and live in Manchester. 10 yers here now. I want to be brought out in my pine box. Love the community and maybe we can help this guy deal with health issues that he is going through.
CLOSED PUBLIC COMMENT 8 PM
Lehman-asked O’Dell. Are gas stations allowed in a B-1? O’Dell- They have no plans to do gas pumps.
Eric Lang- he’s been in this guys shoes trying to set things up. We spent a lot of time making our zone maps. There is no sewage here. We do not want to accelerate the change here, ahead of the infrastructure. Dollar General is in an Industrial area in Dillsboro are where he sees it. They cannot find people to work there. Inject a business like that and you take a finite pot of money and carve it up. To rezone this to make it work- we just did the zone map. He said this is not desirable here and the property values will not be enhanced by this.
Russell Beiersdorfer- I am familiar with the land. There are ways to work around that- the septic would be a mound system that is a huge area. Rossmoyne B2 is the soil type - there is a slope and clay.I have worked with frangipan before- and saw what a plow does in that. It’s tough to do corn and beans. I raised fruit and you can make a living at it. You aren’t going to get rich- but a living. My in-laws farm 3,000 acres. I am president of the Farm Bureau. It means a lot to me. When subdivisions go in it had to go on the deeds that you knew you were next to Ag. Right to Farm Act is something he worked on. 2 Dollar stores in Sunman- they have sewage, police and fire dept. These areas here have these things but Manchester does not. It is spot zoning- Wrong wrong wrong to do here.
Dan Lansing agrees with Lang and Beiersdorfer
Mark Lehman said development will occur on the main highways.
Dan Lansing said that Family dollar on US 50 shut down.
Jake Hoog- and Jeff Hermesch- spot zoning and agree with what the others have said here.
Russell Beiersdorfer- Motioned for an UNFAVORABLE Recommendation from AH to B-1 at SR 48 in Manchester Township based on Article 5 section 540- not meeting the 5 criteria and not responsible growth, doesn’t meet criteria of Comp Plan current condition of the ground, with no sewage, only county deputies, no police. Seconded by Eric Lang. All ayes except for Thatcher- abstained.
Thatcher said this will come to the Commissioners etc, and he knows every here has at least one gun in their house and probably more. <Laughter>
Nicole Daily told the crowd- December 17, 2024- 5 PM- Commissioners will finally decide on this.
ADMINISTRATIVE:
Nicole Daily is proposing to have NO DECEMBER meeting. Ok’d
Presentation by One Dearborn for the Harrison Brookville Access Management Plan- passed this out for January meeting- this is from One Dearborn.
2025 Meeting Schedule - passed out- let me know of there is any issue before year end.
Discuss Update to the Comprehensive Plan through 2025. wants to get back into this and she will send out 2004-2018. Want to see what studies to include in the Comprehensive Plan- several have been done. (By Whom?)
Review, discuss and recommend changes to the Zoning Ordinance, Article 8—Floodplain Regulations - not done
Review and discuss multiple changes to Zoning Ordinance and Subdivision Regulations based on new State Code related to development on slopes up to 25%.- not done
Meeting adjourned at 8:19 PM
Christine Brauer Mueller
Lawrenceburg Township
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