Tuesday, March 01, 2011

28 February 2011 Dearborn County Plan Commission Meeting Notes

28 February 2011 Dearborn County Plan Commission Meeting Notes

Present: Mike Hall, Chairman, Dennis Kraus Jr., Russell Beiersdorfer, Mark Lehman, Mike Hornbach, Jeff Hughes, Jake Hoog, Dan Lansing, and Ken Nelson
Also Present: Mark McCormack, Plan Director, and Andy Baudendistel , substituting for Arnie McGill.
ABSENT: Arnie McGill, Attorney

All current officers were maintained. Arnie McGill was reappointed as attorney. Mike Hall was reappointed as the Plan Commission rep to the BZA.

Request to vacate a portion of Happy Hollow Road by Applicant Rob Seig, Surveyor, and owner David C and David J Lykins ( father and son) This portion is 5.169 acres of Ag zoned land in Jackson and York Townships. There were about 10 citizens in the audience. The ROW is 6,823 ft long. County maintenance was established in Jan 2010. The access is used by the Lykins who own most of the property along this ROW. The Grote piece at the end is the only piece that touches this ROW. Grote has no problem with the vacation and would like to see it closed off. The road crosses a creek in a couple areas. Pictures of the area were shown.

Per Indiana code- a person may make a written request to Plan Commission and they must satisfy 4 criteria to allow it.

Rob Seig, surveyor, presented the request for the Lykins. The county was looking for ways to shorten roadways and have a cul de sac. The deeds are vague from the 1917 era, using creeks as landmarks. He redid the surveys for the road. They found a pin on Engels and found the end 2 ft south of it- and about 2.5 ft from the ROW. This would mean Engel would have to cross over Lykins to get to his land. The next closest properties were 40-50 ft from the road. The road is very rough- no one else drives this road. Lykins wants to vacate and will grant a cul de sac. He is willing to grant an easement for utility only should the county need it for sewer in the distant future. There was some question of adequate frontage for David J (the son) for the future. Mike Hall was questioning the old pins. Seig said he believed they were set in the 1970s by Fishvogt to mark the line for logging at the time. Hughes asked if Seig saw any indication of where the road was EXACTLY. The old surveys had distances that “ran with the creek.” He looked at even the 1937 aerials and others and questioned people in the area. He felt the surveys reflect where the road went. The commissioners do not get paid for this ROW as they are not really maintaining it. However they did keep the ROW in inventory. He did not see a clear cut to get into Engel’s.

Amy Streiter ( sp?) attorney form Batesville, representing Engels. Their son Greg owns a section of the property. 56.18 ft is the maximum discrepancy in the surveyor’s report. This comes into play on part of Engels. Engel’s own a ¼ of a quarter section- a square. Their son will need that road in order to build his home. The lay of the Engel’s land makes it hard to get access thru Engel’s other parcel. The county also paid the owner prior to the Engels to build the road on their land in 1917. (One was George Woliung) The gate has been put across that road by the Lykins. Lykins wanted to put the cul de sac further away from Engels than was previously discussed at a commissioners meeting. The cut in the road was an old roadway shown on 1937 maps. January 13, 2011- Greg Engels recorded his deed to the land. The survey was done in December 2010 by Seig.

Kraus Jr- March 6, 1917 Commissioners minutes showed that they paid Woliungs and Renner for repairs to the Herman Station Road. From those minutes 2 deeds were filed. One has a center line description. The other one was filed in Aug ,1926 from the Cash farm to Woliungs. When Woliungs sold to Felix York- parts of that went to Engels. Barb and John own a 40 acre tract and Greg Engel owns a 30-acre tract.

Rob Seig explained his 56 ft discrepancy allowance. The deeds of Lykins and Engels overlap by 56 feet. This was due to surveys. He chased the title back to when the US gov’t granted it to James Angevine in 1817. In 1847 it was sold to Woliungs. It started as rods, then went to metes and bounds. The deed for the county paying for damages Seig claims it could have been for any given parcel that the road was along. He said he did his survey the way he was supposed to do his work. The 30-acre parcel was created over a hundred years ago. He didn’t go into greater resolution between the property lines because it wasn’t in the scope of what they were doing. Hughes was having trouble because he knows roads move as land moves. We can’t actually say what the county bought or paid for back in 1917. Noah Creech bought land from Engels grandparents in 1970. Lykins bought it from Creech in 1980s or 90s.

Greg Engel- when Creech lived there, we had no trouble accessing our land back there. When Lykins bought it, they asked where the road was. Now there is a problem with either a gate being locked or Lykins parks a vehicle blocking the access. They use tractors and trucks to access their land on that hillside.

Tina Murray- daughter- said that this land has been in our family for years- we want it to stay in the family. It’s heartbreaking to see this- my grandmother Engel would hate to see this happening. It’s uncomfortable to go down there now- wishes people would just get along.

John Engel- this all started a few years back with the gate. This started in 2007. Listerman wanted a 50-ft cul de sac or he’d close the road. County has put baskets in there to hold the road by the creek. He let the county do a lot of work there- and he said nothing. For 60 years I’ve walked that road. It has changed with that work. He feels like he’s being railroaded. He claims Lykins houses and barns have permit issues and there is forgery on a document. County has been paid to maintain the road and they haven’t doneit. The maintenance was done by owners who were also excavators. He outlined the old roadway and the old owners who lived along it back to Ester Ridge. The 56-ft overlap brings this road clearly onto our property. He apologized for going on but he’s frustrated.

Seig was asked about jr-sr rights on the 56 ft. overlap. He wasn’t sure about that as he was only fitting it to Lykins property survey. He did not chase everyone’s title all the way through.
Kraus, Jr. said that if a title issue exists this board cannot resolve that. Only one option is to table it until the title issue is resolved.

said he was there as Lykins agent. He didn’t want to short anyone, but his job was to represent Lykins.

Jeff Stenger- surveyor- the one thing you are missing- they can have prescriptive rights across that road if they can prove they used it. Beiersdorfer said they can’t have that use because a GATE is across that road. It’s prevented it.

Engels said this has been there since 2007. The vehicle parked there is like an intimidation factor. It’s illegal to park on county roads.

PUBLIC discussion ended.

Plan Commission TABLED this item after nearly 2 hours for information on ownership or prescriptive easement. All ayes. Lawyer said they’d have the information in 90 days. Engel is allowed to use the ROW as it is public.


Tucker and Schmidt’s White’s Farm Development is requesting a 2-year extension for the Primary Approval of White Pines Subdivision. This is after a one year extension was previously granted. The reason for extension is due to the economy. This would end in Feb 2013.
Jeff Stenger surveyor stated that the market has been in the tank. They’d hoped the economy would come back with a one-year extension and now are asking for two- as the market hasn’t bounced back. They are planning on keeping the plat the way it is.

Ken Nelson said that he’d like to see them adhere to any technical changes that might happen in that time period.

Approved the extension with the acknowledgement that any technical changes in the ordinance will be reflected in the final drawings of the plan. All ayes. Granted.

1. Financial guarantees report was passed out. One of the developers brought in a check to finish up Hill Springs.

2. 2010 annual report and stats were included as were all the grant writing they have been doing. They have also been working on fiscal impact plan and also water quality issues with OKI.

3. Jim Hough is appealing the primary plat that was brought in on Joseph Field to BZA. Then it may come to PC again, depending on BZA.

4. Working on 3 different grants for State Street grant money. This money has not been applied for yet. Newspaper was notified that their story was not totally accurate. Fire emergency management grant and another for a trailer are also being worked on. If state changes the law- we’ll only have about a year to get a study on Fire and EMS done.

5. Water Quality Management Plan is on the planning website. There are documents for 2030 plan. They are dividing up where the waste water management boundaries will be. They have been meeting for about a year. Old plan dates back to 1977. The new plan takes into consideration point and non-point discharges
6. Fiscal impact model is on-going. Hoping to roll that out in a couple months.

7. They have been working on the zoning revisions and waiting to see how they will be received by the new commissioner as well. If the commissioners are not supportive of the effort, they should spend their time on other tasks. If there is enough general support, they will set zoning committee up for March or April. Nothing for March meeting- so that date could be used for that. Landscaping part of the ordinance needs some work also
8. Working to tweak all our permitting forms to improve the process. They will be able to create more of a checklist form. Looking at other areas for examples. They are absorbing all the county transportation and driveway permits. And then they will email it to the highway dept for their signatures. This will link them to the new highway dept. when they move to Randall Avenue.

9. Currently digitizing the planning records. They have 10 years just about done. They are all linked by the person’s names as well.

10. County is to be launching a new GIS web site in the next 2-4 weeks. Base info will be up first. There will be an open house at some point to teach people how to use it. Eventually the permitting applications will be one stop- one shop permitting application.

11. Mike Hall told McCormack that PZ website was praised as being the best on the county website by Bill Ewbank.

Meeting adjourned at 9: 30 PM

Christine Brauer Mueller
Lawrenceburg Township

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