18 December 2007 Dearborn County Commissioner Meeting Notes

18 December 2007 Dearborn County Commissioner Meeting Notes

Present: Hughes, Chairman, Thompson, and Fox.
Also present: Pickens, Auditor, Messmore, Administrator, and Ewbank, Attorney.

A uniformed police officer was present.

This meeting took a little over 4 hours and there are 9 typed pages- so get yourself some refreshment if you plan to read it all.

The agenda that was put out was also revised sat the meeting to remove two items, as those two citizens cancelled for various reasons. The next commissioner’s meeting will be for signing claims in December. The first meeting of 2008 will be on WEDNESDAY- January 2.

Jenny Lynn Drive and Old Orchard- Citizens of the Jenny Lynn area presented a petition to Commissioners. Hughes did not read it aloud. Listerman outlined the county actions to post Emergency Vehicles Only signs- Tucker will be billed- and Tucker (working with Hwy dept) will have grass over the stone base for this emergency exit by springtime.

Chamber of Commerce – Rozow had revisions worked into the contract so that the CVTB $50,000 contribution is for recreational and tourism activities only per Thompson’s request. Others concurred and signed the contract for annual services with the Chamber of Commerce.

Gary Collins of Collier Ridge- told Commissioners they have had no lines painted on their road in several years. Most of his neighbors want the slip fixed and not a full re-route of the road. They like the historic old red iron bridge and would like to reinforce it rather than scrap it altogether. They think it fits the rural character of their area. He thinks the money to re route and the aesthetics should be main considerations. He also asked for a guardrail at the bridge for safety reasons.

Fox said they will cheat the road to the right and look at the bridge IF FEASIBLE.

Listerman recommended Alternative 3 in phases and asked permission to go to Council for $500,000. He described that as covering engineering, geotech , and the caissons to shore up the road. He plans to seek federal funding, now that they are more tuned in to failing bridges on the federal level, for the bridge to be replaced. They may get the money before the 6-8 years the bridge might last. Listerman was given the OK to go to Council for $500,000 for Alternative 3 and to apply for the federal grant for a bridge in January.

Emergency Management- Commissioners signed the Level One Snow Emergency from last weekend- for Bill Black.

John Zeidan- Starlight Reception Hall – gave an impassioned speech on moving Dearborn County forward. ( Zeidan owns the reception hall, which has an unapproved septic treatment and is currently on a pump and haul for his sewage. He has been actively working with DCRSD since its inception to get sewage to his business.)

Zeidan said: he has a business in the county and owned land here for 22 years, He has lived here for 16 years. He has 4 kids who graduated from high school and college. He said 500 or more graduate from high school here and in his personal poll of his kids friends he thinks maybe zero stay here after graduation. Soon we will be a county of senior citizens. There are too many taxes- enough is enough. Dearborn County has been sleeping and is going backward. We have gained one or two companies- and Argosy. When I look around I feel like I am in a senior citizen community as in Florida, except the weather is different. All I see are gas stations, restaurants, and a few small businesses. There are only 3 families with kids at my Lutheran church. We need young blood and jobs here. We need to get companies here, even if we give them tax abatements.

I don’t want to watch turkey and deer from my porch- I want to watch my grandchildren from my porch. [NOTE: But grandchildren might want to play in the woods and climb trees. Kids and young people are more than just our entertainment and a way to pay for our social security.]

The county is good at studying things- we spend lots of money on studies, get different answers, and don’t do anything. We can’t agree on anything. People can’t build, they don’t want sewers and we are turning away builders.

When I took over the property on US 50 it was a junkyard- I fixed it and my taxes went from $20/mo to $1000 per month. People don’t want to be in N KY or Cinti. Times change and we lose our kids- who will take care of us? Plan A,Z, or B – it makes no difference if we don’t have the infrastructure and utilities.

I would like the idea that the media- radio and paper- tell the citizens what you do each month. We want to see what you DO. I want to see sewage out Aurora to High Ridge. There’s lots of land left out this way to build.

Fox- interjected:- We hear from the same people month after month and until we hear from people like you and church groups… Inflationary costs on basic infrastructure are going to kill you. The small group that is most vocal is running around here like heroes. You should go to a sewer meeting and see who is stopping things. Study study study- and delay until it dies. People on fixed incomes- you will get murdered on taxes. People don’t respond to those editorials- you got to respond!

Zeidan: People don’t care about the environment- sewers are needed. You can’t eat fish from the river. [NOTE: And what is dumping into the river and our tributaries? Industrial waste and sewer plant overflows.] I am paying too many taxes and seeing no improvement. This is America- do whatever you want- but do we want to be back 20 years in time?

Thom Hammond- CASE- That’s a hard act to follow (referring to Zeidan’s speech). John has the right to want this- he’s lived here 16 years. We’ve seen some positive changes- we brought on Mr., Thompson- and change comes slowly. Commissioners reminded Hammond to address then and not the audience.

Hammond continued: I represent CASE- Citizens Against Sewer Enforcement. We formed to defeat the imposition of enforced sewer connection in Dearborn County. We’ve been together 2.5 years. Hammond asked about the letter that commissioners referenced in their April 17, 2007 meeting.

Fox: Bob (Ewbank) and I did a lot of research on that this week. [NOTE: Ewbank is county attorney. His partner Kramer is the DCRSD attorney. The attorney representing the CASE group and those families sued by St. Leon to hook-up is Leininger- a former associate of Ewbank and Kramer. Should Ewbank recuse himself from this?]

Ewbank: First- you are fighting a municipal law- not a county law.
Second- The regional sewer district has a 300 ft provision with an exception for a NEW system and a unique way to spread the payments over 20 years. [NOTE: Payments last longer than the grinder pumps!]
Third THE COUNTY ORDINANCE HAS BEEN EFFECTIVELY REPEALED BY THE CREATION OF A COUNTY WIDE REGIONAL SEWER SYSTEM. [NOTE: What system?- They have a district- they have no system.]

Hammond: The commissioners made a statement that they are NOT wanting forced sewer hookups. I want you to sign this letter that you talk about. You said a precedent would be set…

Ewbank: You are asking them to do something they don’t have the jurisdiction to do. [NOTE: There are several points here where Ewbank answers for commissioners. He and Hammond also went back and forth about who should be listening to who as Ewbank tried to explain it all so that Hammond wouldn’t need to present.]

Fox: Thompson had a letter- I don’t have a problem signing it.

Ewbank: Individually- they can sign an opinion letter.

Hammond: I asked about the commissioner’s letter and you juggernauted into legal issues. This is a public meeting.

Hughes: I don’t like forced hook-ups.

Fox: Me either. You can use the public minutes to show our opinion on this.

Ewbank: I don’t like forced hook-ups- but you have to go to the state legislature to get it fixed. [NOTE: So why do our 3 commissioners and the attorney not offer to represent their citizens and help with that? Talk is cheap.]

Hammond: This resistance to sewers is causing a lot of the non-growth feeling.

Ewbank: Who’s your attorney? [NOTE: As if he doesn’t know?- Ewbank has provided him with info already.]

Hammond: Leininger

Ewbank: He was a former associate of mine.

Hammond: (answering Ewbank’s comment about being argumentative). I’m not being argumentative- I’m being passionate. $2.3 million was turned down for DCRSD because of lawsuits.

Ewbank: Because of High Ridge Estates DCRSD was formed. The downside is the state legislature has this law. If there was a county sewer district where you live we could affect this. But the municipal sewer law covers this.

Hammond: The eyes of the world will come down on you.

Ewbank: The judge will only listen to relevant issues.

Hammond: Are you aware of HB 1671?

Ewbank: No

Hammond: HB 1671 talks about regional….

Ewbank: But this is municipal- and you need to get the 10-mile radius on municipals fixed. Commissioners can testify on their OPINION.

Hammond: If I were in Bright I wouldn’t have to hook-up.

Ewbank: Bright is not a municipality.

Hammond: St, Leon with a little over 500 people is a municipality…

Hammond: the second issue is John Maxwell.

Ewbank: This is an “ad hominem” issue- you are attacking the character of John Maxwell.

Hammond: What about the fact that he’s not hooked up.

Ewbank: This is almost slander- then he accused Hammond if accusing Maxwell of “moral turpitude” and Hammond never used those words at all. [NOTE: Ewbank is throwing around a lot of Latin and legalese at this point and took charge of answering for commissioners. The issue here appears to be conflict of interest and what the code calls pecuniary (financial) interests- NOT moral turpitude.]

Hammond: I am saying that John Maxwell asked Council for a favorable letter for a $2.3 million expansion of St. Leon’s sewer plant. He’s not hooked up either.

Ewbank: Slandering…

Hammond: I am not slandering.

Ewbank: Now you are politicking.

Hughes: I will go on record. I don’t like forced hook-ups. I don’t know why municipalities are allowed to force hook-ups and have a 10-mile radius. [NOTE: Allowed to- but not required to by law.] The DCRSD helps now. In High Ridge Estates the county let people down

Hammond: Do you know what they are doing about it?

More interchange with Ewbank and Hammond says: This does not pass the smell test. Any person will agree, except maybe Bob (Ewbank). In one sewer district we have to hook-up and we can’t even sit on the board. We have a hook in us- we’re not going anywhere as we are being sued. So we are going to bring as much attention to the legal issues and corruption involved. And if we sully the reputation of Dearborn County…

Hughes: I think we’ve answered your questions.

Ewbank: Do you mean corruption?

Hammond: Keep in mind the First Amendment.

Ewbank: I’m trying to help you here. Anything you say can be held against you.
[NOTE: This is starting to sound like Ewbank was reading Hammond his rights.]

Messmore- presented HiTech and Midwest Data bids- for 3 years each. Midwest was $44,700 and HiTech was $39,780. Hitech was accepted and apparently is about $30,000 less than their previous contract. Hughes said- If you keep doing this we won’t have to increase taxes. Thompson asked if all the parameters bid were equal and was told yes. Fox said that everyone in Admin building is content with HiTech’s services, Pickens ALREADY signed with HiTech and his contracts included in the bid price.

Commissioners signed off on inspections for Triple Whipple Bridge #95. Not to exceed $157,164.17.

GIS bids were opened and no decision was made on award yet.

Mark McCormack- Planning and Zoning presented the White Farm Zone change background and slides as in the PC hearing.

Fox asked what the 4 nays were concerned with. McCormack said mainly density was too high. The vote for Favorable was 5-4 on this.

Tucker reiterated his comments from the PC hearing where her went through the 5 criteria for a zone change. He said his development met these as it keeps development where development exists, there is adequate infrastructure, it is comparable to the density and price range of homes in Harley Springs directly to the south, has homes in the same or better range than those along Short Road, is close to I-74and that the land is suitable for R or maybe B-1 in that area. He said the homes will pay for themselves in taxes as they are in the $240 range and up. The lots will sell for $50,000 each. They will buffer around the 3 county roads.

Fox asked about the $1/4 million house paying for itself and was satisfied that this would be a good thing.

Public:

Shana Keller- lives in Harley Springs and bought into Harley Springs Estates- which is now a SUBDIVISION. She was unhappy with the increased phase added to her original investment. She said she was speaking because she lives here and works in Cinti and had to show her father that if you want things to change you have to speak up. (Her father had attempted to get her to not talk by holding her back and covering her mouth at first.) Keller said that her oldest in high school had 21 -23 kids in her elementary classes. The youngest kids now have 33.. She didn’t like the congestion on the roads trying to pull out of Harley Springs onto North Dearborn in the AM. She said they have restrictions on their homes and wondered if Tucker would. She said we need you to protect us! I voted for Mr. Thompson because he’s out to protect us. I bought into an estate at Harley Springs- Now it’s a subdivision. Even the sign changed.

Tom Gaynor: discussed his sons and he operating a cattle farm and that they live here for the rural atmosphere. Are the developers or taxpayers going to pay for these increased services? New homeowners want these amenities now- not after they’ve paid enough taxes to cover them. Just because the sewer is there doesn’t mean we have to have increased density. There have been no major improvements in 50 years on these roads- (the infrastructure isn’t all there. )Gaynor Ridge has 4 right angle turns and only one car can safely pass at a time. Hard to move farm equipment on it now. Cars drive into our fields. School is overloaded and traffic safety are big issues. 2.5 kids per home in this part of the county and subdivision is a more realistic estimate than the .6 they say in the plan. Remember not all zoning members agreed with this density.

Diana Hays- lots of concerns, but feel like we are ignored. For school issues we get told to go see the school board. I have 3 kids. She said EC’s good numbers on tests etc. reflect those earlier years when kids had smaller classes years ago and wonders what the test numbers will be by the time her youngest graduates. This will only continue and the trickle down effect will eat away at all the greenspace. This subdivision has density only on ONE SIDE now.

Steve Kuhn- This has dragged on- and when it is all done we have to live with it. Harley Springs has lower density than this. It does not fit with the comprehensive plan. There are school issues, traffic issues, noise, increased crime, increased taxes. If we don’t increase our needs maybe we won’t need to increase our taxes so much. This change will affect the rural farm area we know and love. The Short Road intersection should be fixed FIRST before the subdivision is built. Gaynor Ridge has areas where cars have to stop to let others pass. Passed out road pictures and fields damaged. North Dearborn Rd. project is cancelled- these people have to drive that road and there is no money for roads per Mr. Fox at the last meeting.

Bob Gaynor- There are 7 livestock and 3 horse farms here. (Character issues) Road issues. On the Comp Plan map this sticks out like a sore thumb. All other houses are set back . He performed calculations showing the lot sizes average less than ¾ acre and that’s way too many.

Glenn Crocker- Dearborn County resident for many years. Was disappointed in the 5-4 vote- it took a long time- 10 minutes for the presider to vote to break the tie. Always look at the net- not the gross- and these lots NET 2/3 acre after ROW taken out. All the amenities were reduced. This is a nice beautiful parcel- we all have different perspectives on its potential use. The comp plan is ongoing and we are not in a race to get somewhere fast. Why jump at 75 homes- high density it sticks out like a sore thumb as Gaynor said. I spoke to Hughes about why they can sell their land (property rights) Why not leave it at Ag and develop it as estates on 1 or more acres each? We can have rural elbow room.

Crocker passed out illustrations showing the densities in the surrounding area. Farmland- 18 houses- 1+ acres. FalconWay 65-70 acres and 45 + homes. Harley Springs- football field size frontage as buffer and set back from road. Was estate sized. Now a subdivision. Look to the east to Bright and all that development. Passed out another illustration. Now look to the west. He went further and further out with large lots and farms to get to Stonegate in Dover and Valley Vista- both with 1+ acres. THIS PARCEL IS THE TRANSITION ZONE! It shouldn’t be high density. He wrote PC members and asked them to go out and look at this. We feel this should develop as a Ag rural homes. Mr. Hughes- they still have the ability to develop. We want to keep a rural neighborhood. Any questions- I’m ready! (No one had any)

Mike Kuhn- Traffic and schools issues. This property was bought at a private auction. We’re here for the long haul- in 4-5 years this will be developed and they are done. We’re left with the problems.

Tucker- we’re not going to slap something up – probably 6-7 years. We have a good reputation for homes and so does Schmidt.

Fox- we’ve been through this before at a long meeting. We’re never going to make everyone happy. We did a poll and suggested ¾ acre and the value of a home to pay its way. I’ll be the bad guy he read each of the 5 criteria for a zone change and motioned to approve. Thompson wouldn’t second. Hughes seconded. – 2 ayes. Thompson Nay as he said it still exceeds the density for the area and the school issues.

RECESS to 9:25PM

McCormack presented articles for ordinance changes. Commissioners approved 305B on private streets but the articles on bond maintenance were sent back to the PC and ROW dedication was tabled to talk to McGill.

McCormack gave 4 names for reappointment or appointment to the PC ( Sparks, Ohlmansiek, Pope and DeMaynadier. Fox has more. BZA has one appointment- Patty Baker. McCormack doesn’t know if she wants to be reappointed as they have had trouble getting her to attend lately.

McCormack said one can be R and the other can be either party. Nelson and Hall go to BZA also. McCormack to meet with Ewbank this week on ordinance changes.

Listerman- Highway Dept- gave 30 minute presentation.

He sent certified letters to property owners- received responses from most. As a result:
Chapin and Darling Road waiting to get response- no action to remove maintenance.

Disbro, Fly Run and Happy Hollow N end will cease to be maintained- though county ROW remains. Lower Probst Road- removed from maintenance.

Carrie Lane and Happy Hollow South end remain on maintenance and already have 50 ft ROW dedicated.

Brady Anderson, Depot and Wesling are gaining the 50 ft ROW dedication and will be maintained.

Falcon’s Nest Subdivision roads were accepted- Viking Dr, Blair Dr, and Falcon’s Way after asphalt was added after core samples done.

Listerman was approved to get a part time seasonal worker instead of filling the full time driver vacant position. Fox know people he’s sending to apply for this. He also talked about moving the ass’t bridge engineer with surveyor license to help with in-house projects and get him certified for INDOT inspections.

Lastly he wanted to increase the salary of the Highway Supervisor to be comparable to the LOW side of the Northern KY area. Cinti and N KY run form $49-58,000.
Listerman asked for $48,000 from $40,374. Said they are still saving $9,202. Fox can’t justify giving him $8,000- workers won’t see it as Ok or increased responsibility. Denied.

Listerman was given permission to go to Council to convert full time to seasonal help and to get Wallace’s position at $16,100 for a HWY worker special rate.

Ewbank reviewed the appraisals and contract offer for Randall Avenue property 2.3 acres N and 14 acres S of existing HWY property. They will have sewer and become EPA compliant. Listerman wants to move entire dept. there. Trucks will be covered and stay there also instead of being sent home with workers.

Thompson motioned to allow Listerman to make the offer on the 2 parcels on Randall Ave. Fox says he wants to do it- but no money for it, He wants to use the money for roads now. [NOTE: So why did they let Listerman get this far with appraisals etc?]Listerman estimated a 15-20 year payback and savings of $100,000 per year.

Hughes voted against it initially and won’t second. Motion dies.

Claims and minutes signed. Employee handbooks in 3 parts for courthouse, jail, and adm bldg were passed out for review. NACO has saved $125,000 in prescriptions so far. Hughes wants it advertised. Pickens said he’ll do better – he’ll put it on the radio.

Ewbank described how they were going to stutter step to get the employee payroll fixed by going 3-4 weeks out and then paying back. They still have to absorb a week at some point. All were confused on how this would work. Ewbank wasn’t describing it well.

Ewbank said the illegal search suit at the jail was settled. The HVL light installer suit is still out there from the Macke contract. ($80,000)

Pickens reminded commissioners they may have to sign claims before year end, 2008 first meeting is WED Jan 2.

Meeting adjourned at 10:35 PM

Christine Brauer Mueller
Lawrenceburg Township