Tuesday, March 25, 2014

24 March 2014 Dearborn County Plan Commission Meeting Notes

24 March 2014 Dearborn County Plan Commission Meeting Notes

Present: Mike Hall, Chairman, Dennis Kraus Jr., Russell Beiersdorfer, Mark Lehman,  Art Little, Jake Hoog, and Jim Thatcher.

ABSENT: Dan Lansing and Mike Hornbach and Arnie McGill, Attorney (who is ill)

Also Present: Mark McCormack, Plan Director, Nicole Daily, Assistant Planner.

Officers were elected as this is their first meeting of the year. McGill was reappointed as attorney. Officers apparently remain the same.


Mike Hall stepped down and left the room as he is the surveyor for this applicant. Dennis Kraus, Jr. took over the meeting.

Appeal Decision of Tech review Committee by A&B Quality Homes, LLC  for Soap Hill Meadows Subdivision in Manchester Township on 29.142 acres or residential and Agriculturally zoned land. (Section 13 T5 R2)

[NOTE: A & B Quality Homes has a new office in the strip section of offices on US 50 near Stateline Road. Per Neil Baier in the hallway preceding the meeting, they are also changing the name of their business here to Timberline Homes And Development, Inc.  This was in response to McCormack telling him that their meeting notice to the company had come back undelivered when he sent it to the N KY address. A and B Quality Homes is Neil Baier and Scott Alexander. Neil was present at this meeting. David Beard is affiliated as contact for Timberline at www. tlpostframehomes.com  Their office is at 181 E US 50 in Greendale at the strip set of office space near the intersection of Stateline and US 50. Phone is  502.321.6328. david.beard@tlpostframehomes.com  Three sides of these homes are standard precolored metal. Front is a mix of materials. Built on slab generally. Price range on- website is $155- 190,000. They also offer two homes to be built lots at Sugar Ridge Golf Course located across from the clubhouse and above a detention pond. The developer did not speak at all during the meeting.]

Mark McCormack presented for Planning Office: This subdivision is across from the old Elk Run golf course on Soap Hill. This was appealed with a notice on Feb 2nd. McCormack went over the rough details of the subdivision. They will have individual septic systems. None are approved yet. The Staffords who are adjoiners filed an appeal. Issues in their appeal are sewage, stormwater runoff increase, property values, and screening.  Pictures of the development also show 8 lots the last 3 are on panhandles that join the road above them. The 3 lots real access however is a private lane that cuts through the all three lots so that a person driving to the last lot goes through the middle of the other two lots to get home. An unasked question at the meeting was how the owners of these modestly priced homes were going to keep up that long private drive.  And also how the neighbors at the end figure into it’s maintenance. The terrain might be an issue.

Terri Hall wife of Mike Hall, surveyor, presented for applicant. She pointed out the septic sites and said that these will be reviewed by a soil scientist. If the scientist doesn’t approve- then it stops the lot building on that site. Minimum 1500 sq feet of living area in the homes. Covenants will be added to the plat if this gets approved as to additional stipulations for te quality of the homes. Retention ponds and drainage will be designed if this is approved. She said that the majority of the drainage runs onto the development site. Trees are along Stafford’s property so privacy could increase.

Tech review sent out letters showing the minor subdivision was approved- which is how the neighbors found out.

Cynthia Stafford. She has concerns about due process. When they received the letter they began to research the process. It is actually a major subdivision she thinks. Kraus Jr. said it was a minor one as it was 7 lots plus the parent tract lot as remainder. However as it has a public street improvement which -was added after the appeal– that made it a major subdivision. She asked if there has been a new application for a major subdivision. They want an appropriate legal review to be sure all the steps are being followed to approve this.

She also didn’t understand why the zoning wouldn’t be all the same for the entire subdivision. Is the application valid as it stands right now?

With regard to storm water runoff and sewage, Cynthia Stafford showed the lots toward the back and how the water drains in a river from this property onto theirs right now during rain storms. She showed photos to demonstrate the elevation differences in the properties.

Property values- they paid $425,000 for their home eight years ago. She said these homes will do nothing for the property values in the area- if they are in the $160,000 range. She thinks eight lots are too many. Five might be the right number and don’t extend the road with a private lane. They moved to see a lot of dark skies in the country. This will add light and also noise.

Lance Stafford- talked about culverts and rushing water and runoff. He said that is a BIG concern. Easement running through there actually decreases the density and this is more dense than the neighborhood. If this is now a major subdivision can he add more? Kraus said he could not increase the density without another public hearing.

Brad Riddle- lives on Leffler Rd near this.  He asked about the eighth lot etc. He said all this runoff goes to their creek- including sewage issues.

Faye Riddle- worried about the damage of the trucks on Leffler Rd with construction. What will happen to Soap Hill with concrete trucks etc. This many houses- all with dogs they bark all night. Will there be noise control. Concerned with types of homes and also taxes. Low price housing will affect our property values. Kraus told her the road will be a 20 ft wide asphalt road to county specs with 50 ft ROW. The blue line shows a private road and the panhandle 50 ft strips. We have 94 acres on Leffler Road. We have horses. Concerned with too many people and their complaints. She said when they complain we become the bad guy. Lehman told her they will have a statement that tell these people they are moving into an Ag area and what to expect.

Jeannie Denning-said that in the MLS listing it shows this as having city sewer. That is incorrect per Kraus.

Dan Neff- I own everything on the other side of the subdivision. I didn’t appeal as I didn’t get letter in time as I work a lot of hours. Water pressure is already an issue. There is a letter from the fire company saying hydrants won’t be supported. The intersection with SoapHill and SR 148 is a bad angle. Adding more traffic to a road that cannot support it. He owns the hollow and kids play in it- but does not want septic in there. He heard the houses were metal sided etc. Kraus said that the types of houses are not typically required for this. Beiersdorfer said that the water company said that the subdivision requires an extension of a water main to be paid for by the developer. Neff said he was probably the last person to plow that field and that soil is terrible for septic. He called out the panhandles as being unwalkable even. He has a deer stand 320 ft from the panhandle.

Greg Edwards- Leffler Road- the panhandles are a joke. There are 46 acres across the road and 40 acres next to that for sale. If you let this go in- these will be next. This would not be a good example to follow. He said we fought the previous proposal for this for 2- 3 years many years ago, There was a lot of issue with septic and drainage and the Staffords back then.  The road is 17-18 ft at the intersection. There is 1000 available acres for sale in this vicinity. You have to do this right- because you can’t turn the next one down if you allow this. Think about these panhandles.

Terri Hall- these sites were already tested with primary and secondary sites years ago- but the soil scientist will be out to verify the previous testing.

Faye Riddle- If the first one fails- then the secondary can be used to repair. Yes. And it is required by our ordinance now.

Cynthia Stafford- when you look at all the property available in the county- there are a lot of properties in this price range. There are other subdivisions without lots sold in the area across from the country club. She questioned again the need for homes in this price range.


Lehman- when the tech review approved this was there no public road proposed? No it was private at that time.

Board seems to not want to decide this as there are really two issues- an appeal based on approval of a minor subdivision and now the subdivision is a major one and requires a different procedure – due to the addition of the road being a county road and not a  private one,

Tabled until the attorney for the board can be present at the April 28th meeting.  Only new info will be presented at the April meeting- not a rehearing.

Mike Hall returned to the meeting after the vote. He told them that it would return to being a private road if need be to get approved. They will wait until McGill can be present.


Proposed changes to the zoning ordinance with regard to address and road name assignments. The board was given a detailed proposal on this. It is now called Address and Road name Assignments instead of Uniform Numbering System. This was assigned at the end of the controversy on West County Line Road. McCormack sent this proposed ordinance to all the groups they use to review these roads. This includes 911, Transportation Dept, Planning and Zoning, Assessor, Surveyor, Auditor, GIS, Post Office and Commissioner’s rep.  No one had any comments so far.

There was a problem with limiting the road names to 10 characters which INCLUDES spaces and the abbreviation for RD or PKWY etc. This seems to go contrary to ones already in existence. It also affects the ability to name roads for characteristics of the county lands or history. That was reworded to be subject to review by tech review committee. [NOTE- there are some states that do this short naming- and it results in things like the AA highway or YY Parkway. Cheap signs, but not necessarily any character to the street names. I’m personally not a fan of requiring short names.]

McCormack read the changes in the proposal to the board. Favorable recommendation passed to commissioners with changes.

Report on bonds needing to be renewed was passed out.

Troy Frazier left for his new job in Memphis and has had 95 applicants for this position. The committee is reviewing all applications and will narrow it to 6-7 for interview to start out.

Wednesday April 16th is the next Comp Plan review committee.

McCormack has been attending HVL Master Plan update meetings. He said they were interesting- and has met about 4 times. He will forward the bulk of the document when they get it together more. 20-30 people have been present at each meeting.

April’s PC meeting might include Indian Ridge outside Aurora and Johnny Wright’s issues. Oxbow will be in for a rezone in the next couple months. Animal definition sections are being looked at again so that will come up again. It includes the definition of large and small animals.

McCormack made sure he introduced Jim Thatcher to the rest of the board and also Nicole Daily, assistant planner.

Meeting adjourned at 9:25 PM

Christine Brauer Mueller

Lawrenceburg Township


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