Tuesday, August 26, 2008

25 August 2008 Dearborn County Plan Commission Meeting Notes

Present: Kraus, Jr. , acting chairman until Hall took over for the last items, Hall (arrived at 7:15), Hornbach, Laws, Lehman, Lansing, Beiersdorfer, Thompson.
ABSENT: Nelson
Also Present: McCormack, Plan Director, and McGill, Attorney.

3 sets of minutes March, April, and May were approved.


1. Elvin and Martha Miller’s request for a waiver on a drainage structure in West Miller Subdivision in Sparta was tabled until Sept 29th at the applicant’s request so they could do more research.

2. Primary approval for a replat of lots 18, 19, and 25 in Georgetown Acres Section 3 on Greenwood Drive Miller Township. Owners: Tim and Sharie Richter presented by Jeff Stenger, Surveyor. Parcel size is 9.545 acres and is zoned R.
The original plat of this was in 1976-7. They reason for these lots being unbuildable at the time was due to no frontage.

Current plans are to build a shared driveway past the original house on lot 25 and access the back two lots. Site distance is OK, the driveway has some steep grade per the pictures. Board had questions on the sewer letter from VRUC which specifically state they could provide service, but needed an OK from Greendale. The intent was to do laterals only as VRUC cannot extend mains per IDEM order. Floyd Ogden indicated they could issue only one lateral at a time. They can’t get multiple permits. So they would do lot 25, then the next and so on. [NOTE: This sounded like a way to circumvent IDEM’s requirements.] The intent is to connect on the property side near HVL. Proposed sites to build are on the gently sloping back lots. The lot numbers will change to 44-46. The owners propose to build on 45, hold 46 for their kids or if they need to sell, and sell their current house on new lot 44. The neighbors movable shed is encroaching about 2-3 ft over the line. Richter’s currently have a “nice Chaffee system- that cost an arm and a leg” for septic and this has to change in front of the house to fit the driveway in.

Thompson reminded them- you have to have sewage approval in order to get primary plat approval per code. Hall asked if they’d talked to Lampert in Greendale. Answer was no. Laws said they could reword the letter and leave Greendale out and then it would be OK. [ NOTE: YIKES!!!!!] Hall said a shared section of 2” line is like a main- laterals would HAVE to be separate lines.

Tom Lane- OK with it.

Ruth Ross- against it- she bought her 2 lots adjoining this in 1995 and was told no one could build behind her as it was restricted since August 16, 1977. A mostly dry creek separates the property. She is in a 2 bedroom house as 3 bedrooms would exceed the results of her septic perc test. She feels this will have an adverse effect on her privacy, cause noise, and devalue her property. Ross also noted that 2 months ago the Richters sent the neighbors a letter that they were moving to FL and wanted to sell the 2 lots at $50,000 each. She questioned if they were really staying. She also showed the PC pictures of her current view and what would be affected.

Julie Merton wanted to be sure her lot was unaffected – it touched on one corner.

McGill reminded the board that they needed to conduct it like a meeting and that this just has to meet subdivision ordinance. This stopped the interchange between neighbors and brought it back to the board.

Tom Lane said the covenants show one house per lot. He has 17 acres on lot 20. He said the Richter’s trees are the Richter’s trees. No one else’s.


Thompson wants sewer cleared up and was concerned about the restricted lot wording. The 2nd lot could be sold now if approved.

Laws- OK with the sewer letter now as it’s VRUC’s problem to get Greendale- not the PC concern. [NOTE: YIKES again!]

Hornbach- OK as Laws said. [NOTE: Hornbach is new- he may not know how this affects Greendale’s standing with IDEM or SDRSD.]

Lehman- Was there a max cap on the # of lots available in 1976-7? McCormack said not in any of their documentation, which was sparse.

Lansing- Why would VRUC put that line in the letter about Greendale unless they had some concern about approval? Would like to hear from Greendale.

Beiersdorfer- Greendale sentence is an issue- they (VRUC) are covering their butts with that one.

Hall- same thing. He asked McGill- do you think it has to be rewritten? McGill- well- after that lawsuit – yes.

Kraus, Jr.- would like to see a better sewer letter.

Hall motioned and Beiersdorfer 2nd to approve the replat of 18,19, and 25 to 44,45,1nd 16 CONTINGENT UPON getting a sanitary sewer letter satisfactory to McGill. All ayes.

3. Proposed Change to the Subdivision Control Ordinance- Articles 160,165 and related texts throughout the book on variances and waivers were forwarded to commissioners with a FAVORABLE recommendation so that the ordinance would be in compliance with state laws. All ayes.


1. McCormack plans to add Greendale to his list of approvals on sewage if VRUC is involved.

2. Bond report late due to Enf officer being sick for a week. It was noted that Linkmeyer’s Eden Sub’n will be off the list soon- they are getting it resolved.

3. Lawrenceville replat was tabled by commissioners as Ewbank- last minute- notified he was unable to make the meeting. Continuing to see if they can get a broader fix. People want low or no cost on this.

4. Comprehensive Plan Amendment (Future Land Use Map and the text changes)- McCormack, Hall, and Kraus, Jr. met with Hughes Friday Aug 1st to see what the concerns were.

Hughes had listed 4 or 5 items of concern:

2 isolated incidents he heard about with advisory board members that he said were intimidating. One involved Mark Hall and Laverne Kolb. One was Ralph Thompson.

Board members who dropped out were replaced and Hughes didn’t like the replacements. McCormack said they were replaced with people from the same organization or interest group. Example- The Chamber could send different people.

Retention of property rights.

Hughes has no particular timeline on revisiting it. Fox does not want to hear it again UNTIL HUGHES IS READY.

The board wanted to let the Advisory Board know the status of the plan so far as several have been asking. Hall said- it’s in the commissioners domain and it will stay there until they act on it.
McCormack is asking the state about setting some time limits on Comp Plans- the same as on zone changes. This isn’t logical.

Thompson asked Hall and Kraus to comment on their opinion of the meeting.

Hall said that Hughes was going to continue to do his research (the poll of large property owners?) But Hughes also said that the other 2 commissioners could do it without him at any time. Hall didn’t get the feeling that Hughes was asking them to formally respond to the concerns he raised.

Kraus Jr. said Hughes feels it’s going to violate personal property rights. Hughes does not want to pass what we forwarded. It seemed like he was just throwing out reasons not to approve it- there isn’t anything really wrong with the plan. Hughes didn’t give them a due time. And he is continuing with his survey of property owners.

Hall added- Hughes said- he’s not feeling any pressure from people to pass it. No one is pushing him to make a rush decision. Not enough people saying anything. [NOTE: RUSH DECISION??? Tabled since November??? How slow does this guy work?]

Hughes also asked about tax implications. [NOTE: I asked for a copy of Hughes’s specific list of concerns. It will be sent from the Plan Office.]

Kathy Scott- Laws had asked what this board could even do. This board should put some pressure on commissioners- write a letter- ask them to decide one way or the other.

Jeff Stenger- You work for the commissioners- they don’t work for you.

Chris Mueller- The Commissioners work for us- the people- and I think we need to let the advisory board know what’s up and if they are so inclined, they can talk to the commissioners. There is no way the people know what is going on- all these talks are behind the scenes.

Stenger- Copy the letter to the advisory board for the commissioners do it is all above board.
McCormack will draft the letter for teh board's approval.

5. US 50 Collaborative is discussing access mgmt at Walmart intersection now. Fill areas and costs are being looked at. This is entirely in L-bg and Aurora’s jurisdiction. Decisions are theirs – we are just helping with our expertise- cheaper than hiring it out. There are 3-4 property owners affected by Phase 1. 8 acres behind Post Office is where Orschelns is going. Some attended this last meeting to see how their businesses were fitting in. $15-20 million tentative costs for Phase 1. FILL IS PLANNED FROM NORTH SIDE TO SOUTH SIDE. [NOTE: Has anyone talked to Army Corps of Engineers? ]

6. Test cases for Fiscal analysis by OKI are being tried soon- US 50, Sugar Ridge, 56 acres Commercial Industrial by St Leon TIF area, and the DeNoma Greendale area. These are just trial runs to see how the project works.

7. Ashley Webb started work as new planner- working on grant application for west Harrison.

Meeting adjourned 9:20 PM

Christine Brauer Mueller
Lawrenceburg Township

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