Tuesday, October 23, 2007

22 October 2007 Dearborn County Plan Commission Meeting Notes

22 October 2007 Dearborn County Plan Commission Meeting Notes

Present: Hall, Chairman, Kraus, Jr, Held, Feiss, Thompson, Nelson, and Laws.
Absent: DeMaynadier and Cheek
Also present: McCormack, Plan Director, and McGill, Attorney

1. The Tabled item scheduled to be heard was a zone change for White Pines Development- Tucker’s Development on Short, Gaynor, and North Dearborn Road. The applicant asked last week that it be tabled until the November 26th meeting- they want 8-9 board members to be present in order to have the best chance of being approved.

2. The 3 lot residential subdivision on nearly 35 acres of Ag zoned land called Stinchcomb Acres which is a private lane (Stinchcomb Lane) in Manchester Township (off Platt Road) involved a variance for placing a private street not centered in the 40-ft easement, a variance for the width of the private street, and a variance for setbacks to EXISTING structures off the private street.

Mike Hall was the surveyor, so he stepped down and his wife, Terry, presented the application and passed out the fire dept. letter. Kraus Jr. chaired in the absence of vice chairman De Maynadier.

Mrs. Stinchcomb is doing this division as part of her estate planning to deed land to her children. She also has Lot 4 with the fishing pond being a lot common to all the property owners- so that no one child owns it. The adjoining neighbor is OK with the easement on the road to gain better access himself. 16-ft of road width is a significant improvement to the existing driveway. There is no realistic need for a 20-ft road width here. They do not want to encourage the public to travel back there. Any further splits or if Lot 4 is built later- it will have to come back to the Planning Dept. There is a max of 6 lots on a private street per our ordinance.
The street is currently 9-10 ft wide with 2 homes. There are no site distance issues. Stinchcomb Road was named a private lane due to 911 regulations, so that EMS could locate the homes on it. Private Lanes have BROWN street signs as opposed to the green ones for county maintained streets.

NO PUBLIC came to comment on this.

Thompson motioned and Nelson 2nd to grant a 70 ft set back variance, a private drive variance that it doesn’t have to be centered in the 40 ft ROW and the variance that it can be 16 ft instead of 20 ft wide. The reason for granting the variance was that it was not injurious to the public safety etc, per the criteria for granting variance in the code. All ayes. Passed

Thompson then motioned and Nelson 2nd to approve the major subdivision request for Stinchcomb Acres for 4 lots, one non-buildable and one other buildable only when septic approval is obtained. Road improvements are to be achieved per the 1st motion. All ayes. Passed.



3. Proposed changes to the Subdivision Ordinance involving Bonds and letters of credit requirements were thoroughly discussed for over 1.5 hours.

Thompson requested they remove as built drawings and request only record drawings.

McCormack said they’d been working on this for over 6 months and had sent letters to the local survey companies, bankers, and homebuilders to get them to review and give their thoughts on the options of letters of credit, cashier’s checks, and performance and maintenance bonds. They also talked to McGill and County Attorney, Bob Ewbank. McCormack said the county was in trouble for not enforcing their own ordinances.
Ewbank told PZ he and the commissioners were in favor of no longer having letters of credit- only performance bonds.

Listerman detailed several examples of road bonds out more than 7 years with extensions and people unable to get bus and mail services to their homes until the road was finished.

McCormack said- we are not experts in this, which is why we talked to Ewbank.

Nelson said – Ewbank isn’t either- he’s just an attorney.
Nelson went on to say he was deeply concerned that by eliminating letters of credit we would be allowing only about 3 local developers to work in the county. What about the smaller developers?

Laws concurred and thought perhaps smaller jobs could have letters of credit.

Nelson said-it doesn’t matter what you have if you aren’t monitoring it and enforcing it- you have to have a system! [NOTE: Nelson is exactly on point here. The bottom line is the county screwed up- no one was watching out for the taxpayers. This is not the first time the bonds and letters of credit system has been messed up. It seems like they keep passing it back and forth between PZ and Hwy on monitoring. An ordinance should be set and it should name WHO is responsible for monitoring and enforcing.]

Todd Listerman was asked how many bonds are out now being monitored- he thought about 12-15.
Kraus Jr asked him to give the PC a monthly report on the status of those. Listerman agreed.

They also plan to notify the developer 90 days before bond or letter of credit lapses to have it renewed 30 days before it lapses. If not- the county will call the bond or letter of credit in 30 days prior to its lapse date. (They have to do it then or they won’t have anything to call in.)

Listerman detailed other roads of Kent’s for example in Happy Hollow that were finished in 2001 or 2002 and not accepted. They accepted those recently. [NOTE: How did they miss this? Who was plowing the snow? Did the county maintain an unaccepted road? Or were the neighbors just uncaring when a foot of snow was on their road- unplowed?]

Richard Schmidt, Nicole Daily, and Tom Kent were in attendance. Schmidt requested that they meet with PZ staff to discuss these changes. McCormack reiterated that they’d notified them 6 months ago, but that they were always willing to hear the public. When Nicole Daily concurred with Schmidt McCormack said Rosenberger had been notified. (Daily works with Rosenberger at Bayer Becker Engineering. ) [NOTE: Rosenberger is also the president of the HOMEBUILDER’S ASS’N. Did he not notify his group of these plans to modify the ordinance? They (Kent and Schmidt) acted as if this was news to them.]

PC decided to table this item for November’s meeting.

ADMINISTRATIVE:

1. Dillsboro is meeting with staff on the buffer around their town. They will do this at their 6:30 Nov 14 meeting of their town Council. They are also interested in contracting with the county for planning services like St,. Leon and W Harrison.

2. St. Leon Comp Plan Draft is on the PZ web page for review. Their next meeting is Nov 7.

3. The letter from the Commissioners and PC to INDOT was sent. McCormack noted that his numbers show 12,000 vpd in the near future at the I-74 interchange vs, INDOT’s 1000 vpd in their long term study for eth rehab of that interchange.

4. The US 50 Collaborative will meet probably about 9 or 9:30 AM in the Emerg Mgmt Bldg on Nov 14. They want to get cities and county together so all projects are known.

5. Comprehensive Plan is set for Oct 29 meeting 7 PM in Adm Bldg with OKI after it. (This was postponed from last month due to the tape failing)

6. Nov 13th will be an executive session planned at 7PM for the Sugar Ridge litigation.

Vince Karstetter addressed the PC with his concerns about getting back to the original intent of plans for the PUD. He wanted the condos changed back to the driving range behind his lot- as in the original scope of work. He asked questions about what happens when a new owner takes over that development. He said he is trying NOT to sue the county. PC can’t change their plans until a new owner requests this.

PC lost the court case with Temmel- on primary plat approval- but nothing has happened on that property. Karstetter asked about how the sewage would work now that Macke is out. Temmel depends on Macke for sewer. (This will go to Greendale ultimately)

It is unclear what the status of the development by the Bright firehouse is. No recent activity.

Meeting adjourned at 10 PM

Christine Brauer Mueller
Lawrenceburg Township

126 comments:

Anonymous said...

McCormack said- we are not experts in this, which is why we talked to Ewbank.

Nelson said – Ewbank isn’t either- he’s just an attorney.



But attorneys are so smart!

Look what Ewbank and Lehner have done for this County!

Dearborn County, with its soon to be sewers branching out to any and all Fehrman and Maxwell developments, will make us an absolute paradise...for realtors, developers and by mere coincidence, LAND TITLE ATTORNEYS!!!

Anonymous said...

By the way Mark Rosenberger is not the president of the Dearborn County Home Builders Association.

Anonymous said...

I guess since we are getting some of the facts out about the meeting last night. The applicants did not request to be tabled "in order to have the best chance of being approved". As I belive it was stated to make sure there was a recommendation going to the County Commissioners. I believe this has been infront of the County Commissioners already with no recommendation. At that meeting the County Commissioners wanted the applicant to go back in front of the Planning Commission to get a recommendation.

Anonymous said...

Isn't it great to have a "public" forum where all are able to post and clarify events in this County?

As "new" blood is brought into the Commissioners, Council and Board Members ranks, the free flow of information will only increase!

It certainly beats the old days of gavel pounding and the cutting off of dissenting opinions!

Maybe in a few years some of our more "selfish" and "manipulative" local attorneys will no longer have complete control of our political process as they have in the past!

The future is looking bright!

Anonymous said...

Picture three Commissioners giving orders to instead of receiving orders from some self-serving County Attorney!

It is easy if you try!

With no worry of having this self-serving County Attorney sabotaging them in some back office with his or her obedient Party Dogs!

Alan S. Freemond, Sr. said...

Look here. Either a developer pays his way for everything that he does or Dearborn County stays as the Charitable foundation that it seems to be.

If you can't pay you can't play. There should be iron bound rules concerning bonds. We need 120% collateral for every single bond or letter of credit. The collateral must be held by a responsible bank.( Do we have any?) maybe they ought to go to a large invetment bank on Wall Street!!!!! Those are tough boys and girls to deal with. Are they scared??

The best thing for a developer who can't raise the money he wishes is to go to private lenders. They'll pay, oh will they pay and the 120% collateral must be keep current. We don't want "Oh damn the stock market went down and I can't keep up 120% collateral or Aunt Tilly who got a new boyfriend decided that she won't help anymore"

IF we don't make it difficult we might just as well apply for a internal revenue designation as a charitable institution and give the county away to the black hat guys like DCDEI and the Chanber of Commerce.

We need a reform governance for this county.

Anonymous said...

I guess since we are getting some of the facts out about the meeting last night.

Facts are always best expressed out loud...

...facts lose their potency when merely whispered in the ear of a co-conspirator!

We all remember those dark days!

Anonymous said...

Look here. Either a developer pays his way for everything that he does or Dearborn County stays as the Charitable foundation that it seems to be.


“Charity” implies some form of a mutual and reciprocal “giving” and “receiving” in light of some compassionate pursuit!

What has been happening in our County is more akin to an old fashion “looting!”

Anonymous said...

"By the way Mark Rosenberger is not the president of the Dearborn County Home Builders Association."

Then why is he representing himself as such?

cc said...

"...it was stated to make sure there was a recommendation going to the County Commissioners. I believe this has been infront of the County Commissioners already with no recommendation. At that meeting the County Commissioners wanted the applicant to go back in front of the Planning Commission to get a recommendation."

And Tucker is starting over-with a NEW plan. You can bet he doesn't want a NEGATIVE recommendation!

Anonymous said...

By the way Mark Rosenberger is not the president of the Dearborn County Home Builders Association.

I wonder if he might be a card carrying DCEDI member?

He seems to share their view that taxpayers should take up the slack whenever a developers' funding falls short!

Chris Mueller said...

I have personally seen letters from the Dearborn County Home Builders Association signed by Mark Rosenberger with DCHBA under his name. His is the only name signed on the letter.
Does DCHBA allow their members to sign on their letterhead and represent their organization?

Anonymous said...

Well at least the DCHBA knows now where all their office supplies are going to!

Mark!

Keep the letterhead, but please return all the red Swingline staplers!

Milton Waddams is fit to be tied!

HHM said...

We've seen specific allegations of illegal or criminal acts on this weblog before. They aledge wrong doing or other things as not true. But, since they are by anonymous, how do we know that what you say is true?

If you have the facts or proof of wrong doing, present it to the proper authorities or post it here; otherwise, we can only presume it is not true! And should be ignored.

Anonymous said...

So who does Rosenberger represent?

Anonymous said...

hhm, using political connections to "force" others to subsidize your business, is not theft?

Republican Party Officials, in backroom deals, support a Development backed Democrat, is not unethical?

County Attorneys, handing out marching orders to public officials on who to vote for, is not corrupt?

Letting road and construction bonds lapse, because it furthers Development Interests, is not dishonest?

There, you have a start as to a list of public malfeasance in this County!

But we all know, if it puts a dollar in your pocket, even if it takes a dollar from our pocket, is just "good" business to you!

Anonymous said...

But we all know, if it puts a dollar in your pocket, even if it takes a dollar from our pocket, is just "good" business to you!

"Your" meaning a few corrupt Development Interests in this County, not you hhm!

Just thought I would clarify that!

Anonymous said...

Milton Waddams is fit to be tied!


http://www.luminomagazine.com/2004.03/spotlight/officespace/images/milton/milton1.jpg

Anonymous said...

Does DCHBA allow their members to sign on their letterhead and represent their organization?

Don't expect any answer...it was just a "snarky" comment by one who hates the fact that this blog even exists...it gets in their way of "doing business as usual!"

Anonymous said...

At this present time Hidden Valleys'Valley Rural Utility's SEWER LAGOON is running over. It's running over at a rate of over 1 million gallons a day into Double Lick Creek. Nothing has changed since 1996 when VRUC took over from Rupel.
VRUC uses Doublelick Creek as their private TOILET. The Dearborn Co Health Department, IDEM and DNR are USELESS in controlling pollution. 11 years and 2 agreed orders and NOTHING has changed!

Vote Hughs out of office. He lives in HVL. He has turned his head to this sewage pollution problems and supported Ogden when he lied to the planning board. What a waste!
Also Judge Witte's waste flows through VRUC and he's another that needs to be voted against in this election!

Anonymous said...

So why do you think Judge Witte living in HVL is reason to vote against him?

Anonymous said...

"Vote Hughs out of office. He lives in HVL. He has turned his head to this sewage pollution problems and supported Ogden when he lied to the planning board."

Development "Movers and Shakers" do not want to draw attention to overflowing sewers at a time when they are trying to force the rest of us to subsidize more sewers for their development!

It gets in the way of the BIG LIE of sewers are for the the public health!

So of course, Hughes being the good "bought and paid for" foot soldier, keeps his mouth shut!

Anonymous said...

So why do you think Judge Witte living in HVL is reason to vote against him?

Witte always struck me as pretty straight shooting guy, for an attorney!

Anonymous said...

So Hughes was somehow involved in suborning the perjury committed by Ogden, lying for Sammy as to the capacity of the VRUC and its ability to accept Red Pines?

Imagine if Mitter did not put the hammer down on that whole mess!

We would have that much more sewage flowing freely into Double Lick Creek!

Anonymous said...

The combining of the VRUC and DCRSD would have been a match made straight from HELL!

Anonymous said...

So why do you think Judge Witte living in HVL is reason to vote against him?

He's turning head to the sewage problems in which he's contributing. That's not good. He, as as a judge, needs to take an active role in cleaning up this situation. If he doesn't take care of his on "back yard", what does that tell you about his ethics and abilities to administer justice for everybody else?

Anonymous said...

The VRUC Board fought so hard and so long and spent so much time trying to retain control of utility in order to service a few "connected" developers, that they let their infrastructure "go down the drain" so to speak and now Double Lick Creek is a flowing cesspool!

The DCRSD is doing the same with High Ridge Estates. They will let the sewage continue to flow into Hogan's Creek until the County Council bows to their demands of sewering Fehrman's Gabbard Estates subdivision!

Both the VRUC and the DCRSD have no problem holding the public health hostage until a few "politcally connected" developers have their pecuniary needs met by the taxpayer!

Anonymous said...

He, as a judge, needs to take an active role in cleaning up this situation.

The whole VRUC vs. Greendale "debate" became pretty politicized, judicial ethics being what they are, I can understand why Witte did not take a public stand on the matter!

And of course, no one knows what he may have done or said behind the scenes!

Just my two cents!

Anonymous said...

If Fehrman wants Gabbard estates to linked be with the High Ridge fix, then he should pay the entire amount of the costs of his connection.

As it stands now, every choice the DCRSD has offered the Council has the rest of us, surrounding his subdivision, paying "OUR" share of "His" sewers!

Total B.S. and political extortion!

Anonymous said...

"to be linked with"

Fixed

Anonymous said...

"And of course, no one knows what he may have done or said behind the scenes!"

Assumptions don't speak!
ACTION speaks.
Judges are expected to speak [give judgements]. The assumption he acted behind the scene is uncharacteristic of a/his judicial character.
My assumption is ,he did and is doing NOTHING to alleviate the pollution of our county by VRUC.

Your turn.

Anonymous said...

Sorry, but you have to look at the Judicial Canon of Ethics.

Those are the ethical guidelines governing all judges.

He could have been disciplined for getting involved in such a "political debate"

Attorneys, on both sides of debate have or may come before him in his courtroom, so he must appear to be impartial.

Anonymous said...

"Sorry, but you have to look at the Judicial Canon of Ethics."

The issue is so personal to him if he had to rule on this issue, the Judicial Canon of Ethics, should have mandated that he not rule on this case and opt out.
He's done nothing that's public or private. Which is sad. The VRUC issue need some physical correction not "WORDS". WORDS could help but repairing the VRUC collection system IS the only answer!
Witte needs to address his own "backyard" problems before I'll be convinced he's the Judge that can administer public judgement.

Anonymous said...

It is not just this case, but his impartiality as to all cases that comes before him.

Further, there are attorneys on boths of the sewer debate, who could in future come before him on entirely different matters, that he may have to recuse himself because of this one matter.

You can think and wish what you like, but Witte has done the right thing by remaining mum on this matter.

Witte could not take a "public" stand on this matter, no matter what side he favors.

You are battling windmills.

Take the fight to the developers, who are at the heart of this sewer mess.

Anonymous said...

Witte may very well be unhappy with the VRUC and is on the side of those who desire reform of the entire process.

Why alienate someone like Witte, if by his silence, he is doing what is expected of him by the Judicial Code of Ethics?

Unless the "fight" is more important than the "goal?"

Anonymous said...

"You are battling windmills."

I agree. The law representative are just that and the practicing lawyers are politically connected and running the county.
I expect, LOL, assume the judges should be a step above the the other lawyers.
I see no higher degree of ethics from the setting judge. He's not doing his job as a citizen of Hidden Valley Lake! His own Backyard! If I see some inkling of help with this issue I'd vote for him in a "New York Minute".
I watching the ongoing situation but Not holding my breath!

Anonymous said...

Good move on your part...by not holding your breath...because Witte is not going to make a public statement on this matter...because he cannot!

It has nothing to do with politics!

It has everything to do with avoiding the appearance of impropriety!

A concept totally lost on the likes of Ewbank and Company!

Anonymous said...

Judge Witte as a citizen of HVL can put pressure on the VRUC to correct the sewage collection system overflows. If he had or does contact the "right lawyers, Health Board,IDEM,or DNR" it will be evident.

Anonymous said...

He can't!!!

Please!!!

Do some research on Judicial Code of Ethics!!!

You making more enemies than friends with your tactics!!!

Now I'm done with you...I can only speak and write so slow!!!

Anonymous said...

Why waste your time with this guy. He just wants to hear the sound of his own indignation, with no idea what he is talking about nor how he is coming off to those who may be sympathetic to smart growth and against forced hookups and the like. It seems he would rather pretend to win his little battle here, but is willing for the entire cause to go down in flames.

Anonymous said...

"He can't!!!"

LOL, There's more business conducted on golf courses than in boardrooms.

You know better than using He Can't!

"Can't never did Anything"!

Anonymous said...

Give it a rest in regards to Judge Witte, the other poster is correct concerning what a Judge can and cannot do. As if we do not already have enoungh forces working behind the scenes to negate our goals, you seem to be determined on making more enemies.

Anonymous said...

Witte cannot "trade" on his position as a judge to sway things the way he would like them to be!

Anonymous said...

I give up with this guy too.

Anonymous said...

you seem to be determined on making more enemies.

This guy is sounding more like a development plant in order to paint the rest of us with the broad brush of augumentive ding-a-lings!

Anonymous said...

"Keep your friends close and your enemies closer."

Anonymous said...

"When in doubt, publicly treat everyone as an enemy...it is the best way to win friends and influence people." sarcasm off

Anonymous said...

"Keep your friends close and your enemies closer."

Sarcasm was off with this statement.

Anonymous said...

After reading some of this nonsense, I'm getting confused about who I am supposed to be hating? Is it Fehrman (which one),Maxwell, Witte or Crazy Al? Or maybe if I hate everyone, I will just fit in!

Anonymous said...

For what it's worth.
That's politics.
If you're involved in politics you know.
If not, ask someone you trust.
In politics there are many many users whom don't care about protecting citizens.
They laugh at even the thought of caring.

Vlad Dracula said...

Crazy Al is probably crazy as a loon but the trouble is that no one has come up with a better idea to relieve St. Loen folks of the sewer problem than simply trying to get the state to buy back those bonds.

If the St. Leon folks win their law suit you can be certain that the case will be appealed. St. Leon Sewer has plenty fo money to pursue the case and certainly EES the firms that operates the system will fight hard and long to win. THey make their money there. And does anyone think that some developer wouldn't help them out agains the people?

SO SOMEBODY COME UP WITH A BETTER IDEA! Then we can put Crazy Al back in the loony bin.

jb said...

After reading some of this nonsense, I'm getting confused about who I am supposed to be hating? Is it Fehrman (which one),Maxwell, Witte or Crazy Al? Or maybe if I hate everyone, I will just fit in!

Why do you have to hate anyone- can't a discussion go on and we agree to disagree- respectfully?

Anonymous said...

I will just fit in!

If you like stealing money for you subdivisions through forced sewer hook-ups or forced payments from your neighbors, you probably would not fit in here.

If you like rigging elections like our local Republican Party in favor of Development interests, you probably would not fit in here.

If you have trouble making a buck without a politician in your backpocket, you probably would not fit in here.

If you like to steal campaign yard signs, you probably would not fit in here.

If you piss yourself whenever the County Attorney looks your way, you probably would not fit in here.

If you equate "growth" with having other people subsidize your "growing,"
If you like stealing money for you subdivisions through forced sewer hook-ups or forced payments from your neighbors, you probably would not fit in here.

If you like rigging elections like our local Republican Party in favor of Development interests, you probably would not fit in here.

If you have trouble making a buck without a politician in your backpocket, you probably would not fit in here.

If you like to steal campaign yard signs, you probably would not fit in here.

If you piss yourself whenever the County Attorney looks your way, you probably would not fit in here.


Just a few guidelines to start you off!







Just a few guidelines to start you off!

Anonymous said...

YES!!!!
But much of what is written in this blog falls short of the "respectfully" notion. Belittleing, degrading, disrespect of those we disagree with, seems to be the order of the day. I'm just trying to fit in!

Anonymous said...

Why do you have to hate anyone- can't a discussion go on and we agree to disagree- respectfully?

To Fehrman, Maxwell, Ewbank, Lehner and all the rest, it is HATEFUL If you yell:

STOP THIEF!!!

When you catch someone running off with YOUR valuables!

Anonymous said...

YES!!!!
But much of what is written in this blog falls short of the "respectfully" notion. Belittleing, degrading, disrespect of those we disagree with, seems to be the order of the day. I'm just trying to fit in!


Words pale in comparision with the outright thievery and pain being caused in St. Leon and what the DCRSD is trying to do to people on 50!

Words are pimples...

...what some realtor/developers are trying to do is downright cancerous!

Anonymous said...

"But much of what is written in this blog falls short of the "respectfully" notion."

Trying to steal your neighbors' savings to subsidize your failing businesses is a "respectfully" notion?"

Anonymous said...

Just a few guidelines to start you off!

Excuse the mistakes, my electric went out during typing the above...

...thankfully, I am on a septic system and not on one of Fehrman's grinder pumps, so I could use the "facilites" in the interim until the electric kicked back on!

Thank goodness for small blessings and being miles away from any of Fehrman's proposed subdivisions!

Anonymous said...

My power just went out also, we must be neighbors!

But don't worry, I am on a septic system also!

Anonymous said...

Chris..Did you ever think that Board members could sign a letter for an organization? And outside the letter that had been posted on this blog, how many letters are we talking about?

I don't think Mark is representing himself as the president. I don't remember seeing President under his name on that letter.

Also for the White Pine project..I don't believe there is technically a "NEW" Plan, but a reduction in density trying to find a common ground with the residents and the Plan Commission.

Anonymous said...

Who is the President of the Homebuilders Assoc?

Anonymous said...

Who is the President of the Homebuilders Assoc?

Maybe there is such a turnover at the DCHBA, the presidency is always in flux?

How about an easier question:

WHO WAS THE LAST PRESIDENT OF THE DCHBA?

Anonymous said...

Maybe there is such a turnover at the DCHBA, the presidency is always in flux?

Much like two of our Commissioners, maybe no one at the DCHBA wants to take any responsibility for the actions of their superiors?

Fox and Hughes' superior is Ewbank, he thinks he is President of Dearborn County...now who acts the most smugly superior and thinks he is President of the DCHBA?

Chris Mueller said...

In regards to anonymous: "Chris..Did you ever think that Board members could sign a letter for an organization? And outside the letter that had been posted on this blog, how many letters are we talking about?

I don't think Mark is representing himself as the president. I don't remember seeing President under his name on that letter.

Also for the White Pine project..I don't believe there is technically a "NEW" Plan, but a reduction in density trying to find a common ground with the residents and the Plan Commission."

It is POSSIBLE that a board member is presenting the letter- but that is not a normal procedure in any board or group I've served on or am familiar with. Repeated letters delivered or signed by the same person usually indicates he/she is the "head" or spokesperson. Speaking on DCHBA's behalf to PZ staff regarding issues with the master plan also occurred.
Which makes me wonder- if Mark isn't the President of DCHBA then why is the president of the DCHBA a secret?
As to the new plan for White Pines-my understanding is that it was a new submission.
In either event is is significantly revised.

Anonymous said...

Why are you defending yourself?

Anonymous said...

Why are you defending yourself?

Don't you just hate the fact that Chris is asked a question and she answers it?

Maybe she should learn how to sidestep questions like you all?

Now here is a question for you?

WHO IS THE PRESIDENT OF THE DCHBA?

It seems like a simple enough question...and you seem a simple enough simpleton capable of answering such a simple question!

Anonymous said...

And if you ever get around to answering that simple question, in your simple way, maybe you could also tell us why the rest of us need to subsidize your simpleton business interests?

It would seem that the simple approach, of simply paying your own way, is simply lost on you and your simple realtors/developers/shysters friends and fellow simple crooks!

Anonymous said...

Maybe the DCHBA is still in the process of incubating some form of spawn of a Lehner/Ewbank mixture and mélange…allowing for the scientific impossibility that any other sort of creature is not clever and competent enough to be trusted with any variety and level of power, real or imagined, in Dearborn County today!

At least that is what Lehner and Ewbank suggest in the forward of their book:

DEARBORN COUNTY…THANKS FOR ALL THOSE DOLLARS…A SCAM UNREALIZED IS A SCAM UNREWARDED!!!

Anonymous said...

And of course, no one can forget the Lehner/Ewbank "how to" book:

HOW STUPID POLITICIANS ARE BETTER THAN A 401K IN YOUR INVESTMENT PLANS

They dedicate the book to Vera Benning!

Anonymous said...

Dissolve the DCRSD and Benning is gone from the "courthouse gang".

Anonymous said...

As long as there is weasel room in County Government for those to conspire ways to steal from the taxpayer to give to the realtor/developer, there will always be room for Vera Bennings in County Government!

The citizen/taxpayer is just too attractive and alluring of a mark and easy score for these flim-flam artists to ignore!

Anonymous said...

Maybe we have Vera all wrong, maybe she is the lone voice in the wilderness at the DCRSD decrying the entire idea of forcing others to pay for the sewers of the likes of Fehrman and Maxwell?

Just kidding!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Another person needs be added to the list of HVL residents POOing in Doublelick Creek through VRUC with no regards for the county sewage pollution.

Robert Ewbanks, the county attorney, also lives in HVL. He was the attorney along with Parvin Price that was generiously paid for his services when Mr Rupel was ousted by IDEM/VRUC. He was VRUC's lawyer until recently . Now with many more residents in HVL, the pollution problems are compounded. Nothing meaningful has been done to VRUC's system since the 1996 change in ownership. Mr Ewbank needs to address the VRUC's pollution along with Jeff Hughes and Judge Witte. The problem needs personal attention if not professional attention.

Anonymous said...

Ewbank isn't going to do "crap" about the "crap" flowing into Double Lick Creek!

Not until he gets the DCRSD off the ground!

The Double Lick Creek fiasco does not fit neatly into his lie of sewers are for the "public" health!

Anonymous said...

The lawyers and developers pushing sewers in this County would pipe their sewage into every kiddie pool in the County if it would improve their bottom lines!

This whole sewer dodge is just an extensive money grab by the “politically connected” few, from the "politically unprotected" many, in this County!

And as long as stooges such as Benning, Fox and Hughes exist to service these bastards, it will only continue!

Anonymous said...

I'm sure Rick and Jeff have already received their memos from Ewbank, instructing them to blame the millions of gallons of raw sewage which has and is still flowing into Double Lick Creek on the "DO NOTHING" administration of Ralph Thompson!

Anonymous said...

Rick Fox:

"Yeah, me and Jeff knew as soon as Frank Linkmeyer lost to Ralph Thompson, Double Lick Creek would get all E-coli-ed up!"

Anonymous said...

All this fuss about raw sewage flowing into our waterways...

...if it really is happening...

...don't you think Doug Baer would be making a big "stink" about it???

Anonymous said...

Well, there does seem to be a big "stink" originating from Doug Baer's office, but it is more political than biological!

Anonymous said...

DEARBORN COUNTY JEOPARDY

ALEX: Results in Rick and Jeff shouting "FREE AT LAST...FREE AT LAST!!!"

CONTESTANT: What is Bob Ewbank stepping down as County Attorney?

Anonymous said...

Bob Ewbank would never step down from his position as County Attorney!

If he is forced out by the current Republican Commissioners, he will throw his support to a couple of Democrat candidates who will run for Commissioner in the next election, who will re-appoint him as an act of gratitude and as Bob will have their balls in his lock-box!

Anonymous said...

"If he is forced out by the current Republican Commissioners, he will throw his support to a couple of Democrat candidates who will run for Commissioner in the next election, who will re-appoint him as an act of gratitude "

That Modus operandi sums up Ewbank! User du jour.

Anonymous said...

So I see the identity of DCHBA's President is still being kept all hush...hush!

Maybe they fear this blog is associated with "America's Most Wanted" and the DCHBA's President has a few warrants out for his arrest?

Secret said...

Chris....If you would read the letter a little closer it seems the letter was written by a sub-committee of the Home Builders Association. Also repeated letters signed by someone doesn't usually indicate that he/she are the head or the spokesperson. I send letters out all the time on company letter head and I am not the president.

I am not sure why you think the president of the DCHBA is such a secret. The other comments on this blog were just informing you the Mark Rosenberger wasn't the president.

I guess if you don't have your facts straight on something it automaticly makes it a huge secret. I will alert the media the Chris Muller does not know everything. Oh and by the way if she doesn't know something that must mean it is a secret organization or something bad.

Anonymous said...

Who is the President of the DCHBA, Francis?

Anonymous said...

"I will alert the media the Chris Muller does not know everything.

No newsflash to the news media who the corrupt, conspiring few are in this county!

Pretty much self-contained in the local republican and DCEDI leadership!

Now, who is the president?

You keep pissing all over yourself telling us who it is not!

Anonymous said...

Chris....If you would read the letter a little closer it seems the letter was written by a sub-committee of the Home Builders Association.

So it seems the letter has left you no clue either just what the position of the letter writer is in the DCHBA and is an absolute whodunit of inscrutability to you also?

Don't feel bad, no one in the development frat wants to tell any of us the truth...we are not part of their inbred club and anti-social order!

It seems they just fancy to converse in riddles and play other school girl games!

Anonymous said...

"and play other school girl games!"

Leave Brett out of this!

Anonymous said...

No newsflash to the news media who the corrupt, conspiring few are in this county!

Don't tell Liz, the Pravda Princess may get upset hearing about any corruption in the local party offices and central committees!

Chris Mueller said...

See the archives on the blog - DCHBA letter posted to this blog on July 19, 2007 has Rosenberger's name and his signature is also on the original copy of that letter in my files.

Anonymous said...

Well we got that all cleared up.

Now, what was the issue?

Anonymous said...

Apparently, Chris is not allowed to presume anything about anything, but must read between the lines, while standing on her head, as she tries to figure out who the main players are in organizations such as the DCHBA, as her detractors refuse to clarify what they propose they are clarifying about what Chris should not be presuming!

There…all cleared up!

Anonymous said...

How easy it would be for Chris not to mistakenly refer to Rosenberger as President of the DCHBA if one of Chris' detractors would just inform her and us, just who the President is?

Or should we all just refer to anyone issuing edicts on DCHBA's letterhead as:

"THAT ONE GUY, WRITING THAT ONE THING, WHO MAY OR MAY NOT EVEN BE IN A POSITION TO WRITE WHAT HE IS WRITING?"

V Dracula said...

Does anyone really care who is the president of teh DCHBA?
Those guys and girls if they have any,over at the DCHBA are all interchangable.

If you'd reach into a barrel of monkeys you'd find more differences between the monkeys than between these these Dearborn County Donald Trump wannabes

Anonymous said...

These guys are working overtime on gaining Trump's arrogance, but with none of his money sense!

Anonymous said...

So, has the VRUC dumped any more raw sewage into Double Lick Creek this week?

It would be helpful for all of us on septic systems who so want to go the sewer route!

Maybe Ewbank and Hughes can also keep us all posted as to the amount and the running total of aquatic and terrestrial biological kills as a result of this dumping of raw sewage to date?

You would think Fehrman, Maxwell and Andres would be pushing for such information with their grand interests in preserving our waterways!

I'm sure that Doug Baer has this informantion posted somewhere on the County's web site to keep the public informed as to the dumping of this raw sewage, but I just cannot seem to ferret it out!

Anonymous said...

Don't expect to see Chuck Andres protesting in front of the VRUC for dumping sewage into HIS "waterways!"

His interests in the ecological matters runs only as far as the boundary line of his property he is trying to sell for $55,000.00 and acre...with sewers subsidized by you me!!!

Look up "Self-serving" in your Merriam-Webster and you will find Chuck's picture and his short biography!!!

Anonymous said...

Fehrman and Maxwell are willing to do their part to protect our waterways.

There has been some talk here that while these two drag their feet in fixing High Ridge's sewer problem, as they try to get the County Council to finance sewers to their respective developments, that they are permitting more and more raw sewage to run into Hogan's Creek.

To prove their naysayers wrong, they will have Doug Baer monitor Hogan's daily and post his results on the County Website.

For those who would like to see Doug Baer in action testing Hogan's Creek...

...you will find him 2 miles UP stream from where High Ridge's enters into Hogan's Creek testing his little heart out!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

The DCRSD would not even be in existence but for a Developer's shoddy sewer system. But, of course, the DCRSD’s main objective now is to protect us from our “functional” septic systems. The DCRSD’s priority for fixing our “functional” septic system scourge, is to start sewering areas around a few of its Board Members' proposed subdivisions, with dollars pryed from OUR taxes and OUR savings. Oh the irony!

Anonymous said...

What happened to "conservative" republicans who believe we need to pay our own way and focus on self-reliance?

Listening to the Mayoral Debate last night, it would seem two of the republican candidates are supporters of any type of taxpayer welfare that would improve their bottom-lines!

And except for Hastings, the republicans were downright nasty!

This is what happens when spoiled, country club rinos take over the party!

Anonymous said...

Yeah, especially Hrezo going on an on about the "special" few who always get Hedrick's attention in Greendale!

For Hrezo, the “special” few are those average, non-politically connected average taxpayers treated as Hrezo would only treat his developer buddies!

Anonymous said...

For Hrezo, the “special” few are those average, non-politically connected average taxpayers treated as Hrezo would only treat his developer buddies!
--------------------------------------------
Sammy gutzwiller and ralph meierjohan will be representing hrezo at the polls. Don't miss their preformance!

Anonymous said...

Greendale has worked slowly and as they could afford it, developing their sewer system...which is why their utility costs are so low.

Hrezo is all for the DCRSD, which wants everything Greendale has, right now, at extraordinary costs to the taxpayer and nearby home and property owners, to subsidize a handful of the "special" few realtor/developers in this county!

Anonymous said...

"And except for Hastings, the republicans were downright nasty!"

And Hastings is backing Jim West's plan for the NW Quadrant! What does the mayor of Aurora want with that? Or is he an FOB- (friend of Brett)who prowled the Quadramt looking for sellers of cheap land.

Anonymous said...

"Hrezo is all for the DCRSD, which wants everything Greendale has, right now, at extraordinary costs to the taxpayer and nearby home and property owners, to subsidize a handful of the "special" few realtor/developers in this county!"

I would not be suprised seeing Fehrman and Dennerline representing Hrezo at the polls!
Naw, they'll just be there is spirit. Hrezo's their hired help!

Anonymous said...

"Yeah, especially Hrezo going on an on about the "special" few who always get Hedrick's attention in Greendale!"

We need to see who contributed to these campaigns. Want to bet Sammy and Jeff and Brett have gambled on a few of these candidates?

Anonymous said...

Sammy Gutzwiller needs to sponsor an inner-tube float trip down Double Lick Creek for all of Hrezo's supporters!!!

Sammy could point out all the fish that are dying but not dead yet and buttress her point that:

"SEE! THERE IS STILL CAPACITY AT THE VRUC FOR RED PINES!"

cc said...

And Hrezo does work for DCRSD- bet he wants to help them with all sorts of sewer expansion so he can get more work.
Now say it all together boys and girls- CONFLICT OF INTEREST!

Anonymous said...

We need to see who contributed to these campaigns. Want to bet Sammy and Jeff and Brett have gambled on a few of these candidates?

Whomever is in favor of stealing from the taxpayer to give to the developer, has these three's votes!

Anonymous said...

CONFLICT OF INTEREST!

Conflicts of Interest are a necessary requirement for any participation with the DCRSD...from the board members down to their attorney!

An Ethics Professor's head would explode examining the history and current practices of the DCRSD!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

"An Ethics Professor's head would explode examining the history and current practices of the DCRSD!!!!!!"

Maybe Ewbank and Kramer can sponsor an "Ethics" semimar for the Commissioners and the DCRSD's Board Members?

Maybe they could focus on the problems with the "appearances of impropriety?"

Anonymous said...

"Maybe Ewbank and Kramer can sponsor an "Ethics" semimar for the Commissioners and the DCRSD's Board Members?"

Ask Judge Witte to preside. He's observing his code of ethics not theirs.
sarcasm off!

Anonymous said...

Actually, Witte is the only attorney in this bunch who is following any ethical guidelines!

Anonymous said...

"Actually, Witte is the only attorney in this bunch who is following any ethical guidelines!"

You should know what assumming makes you.

Anonymous said...

You are an obsessed fool.

You hurt the cause of those us for "smart growth" and government "accountability!"

Go toilet paper the judge's house if that makes you feel better.

I will no longer post on this thread.

May this thread die...to keep from drawing any more attention to your foolish remarks!

Anonymous said...

Count me in also in boycotting this post from here on out.

Anonymous said...

Strong feelings on both sides of the Judge issue is good for the voters.

No feelings give a free reign to the county servants/incumbants.

Anonymous said...

Bossert is DCHBA president.

Anonymous said...

Bossert is DCHBA president.

Yeah!

Anonymous said...

So why isn't HE representing DCHBA at the master plan?

Anonymous said...

According to his Financial statement filed with the Election Board, Mr Hrezo received contributions from the following:

Bob Alkins Lines, Inc. $ 500
APIC dba Fehrman Realty $1000
BR Willis Enterprises $ 600
DMS Investment Management $ 300
(address not available)
C&C Lawncare Co. $ 100
Lawrence Higdon $1000
(Cincinnati, OH)


Mr. Hedrick has received no contributions.

HHM said...

My intention was not to excuse the use of political officials for personal benefit and other means of thievery in office.

My intent was to suggest that people with proof of criminal acts, take that proof to the appropriate authorities and get those people out of our government.

I don't think we need to hate anyone or attack people's personalities. I do think, we need to make those actions which are detrimental to the county public and where they cross the line of legality, they should be prosecuted.

Hopefully, by making selfish actions and those actions detrimental to the County public, people will be able to vote out the thieves and if there are some good candidates, vote them in.

Anonymous said...

According to his Financial statement filed with the Election Board, Mr Hastings received contributions from quite a number of individuals including the following:
Renee Bedinghaus
Bill Yelton
John Nugent
Jeff Bittner & Sammy Gutzwiler
Aaron Negangard
Frank Linkmeyer
Martin Hon
Brett Fehrman
Cary Pickens
Kieth Lochmueller (Evansville, IN)
Tom Cicero (Scottsburg, IN)

Nancy Turner has received contributions from:

Daman Canfield (Westerville, OH)
Craig Fowler
Kieth Mosier
Richard Ulrich
Nancy Turner

Anonymous said...

Is Hastings a male Vera or does he have another, substantial job outside of politics?

It would seem he has a number of contributors who like to exploit the weak for their own financial gain!

cc said...

Some of these mayoral candidates have significant contributions from realty and outside development companies. Those same candidates have debates on WSCH and interviews on www.theflypod.com that make them sound like they are merely parrotting the DCEDI, Jim West, and Vieste. They are vague on details and long on promises of great wealth and keeping our kids here.
Give us a break!

Alan S. Freemond, Sr. said...

We have our Senator the honorable Johnnnnny RINO Nugent, we've Rino Pickens both contributing to Hasings campaign yet RINO Pickens was against Ralph Thompson and the man who calls me friend would not only put in G-D cent for Thompson but he contributed to a group funded advetisment for the Democrat Linkmeyer for County Commissioner.

Yet the ( Honorable Johnnnny)Senator told me that he couldn't afford to put any money into Thompson's campaign. He who had a campaign fund of 275K.

We've sure got them here don't we? When and how do we get them here.